Face-to-Face Tournament Rules

@Gargantua:

@smo63:

You know, if is funny, we get back from a fantastic CON.�  Things went almost flawless.�  Had great discussions about how to possibly make things better for the future, etc.�  Chess clocks, time, rounds etc. In every single case where we discussed the events in length, we had civil discussions because those talking about whatever the topic was, understood first hand what we being discussed.�

And I know that some of you have been to GEN CON and have experienced events first hand.�  But I am not sure why there is so much negativety when it comes to the discussion on the boards vs. when one talks about it FTF.�  Again, I believe MM might have said it somewhere bad in a thread long ago, it sure is nice to hide behind the screen of your computer when one really doesn’t know understand the concept of what is being discussed? :mrgreen:

I’m going to be very blunt/honest/direct here. But hear me out.

it sure is nice to hide behind the screen of your computer

This is exactly the problem Smo, you hit the nail on the head. But unfortunately, you are also a primary contributer to the crime yourself.

Look for example here…

“I guess that what boards are for, so people can make aimless random comments about things that aren’t really relevant, and then proceed to start a debate over the issue.”

People tend to get offended when you paint them all with the same brush.  Just like you get offended when people have anything to say (constructive or not) that deviates from your own personal Agenda for Gencon.

At the end of the day, it’s your gig, your tournament, and your deal, thus the way you want to see it - is the way it will be.  The tournament is a favour to the fans.  So stop caring about what people you’re having disagreements with (who often don’t attend your event) think…

More importantly stop GENERALIZING that everyone who’s from the forum side of the world has a hate on for you, or is stupid, foolish, incompetent, and unable to contribute value.  Guys like Questioneer mean you no harm/foul. But it’s constantly interpretted by yourself ‘as such’.

That’s on YOU.

You’ll learn that YES there are idiots who HIDE amongst the community of the internet, in places like this, and who whine about everything…

but there’s no reason to burn down the house just to kill a few mice.

Realize this:

• Gen Con was a success,
• MORE people will come next year - likely including me,
• and this forum is NOT YOUR ENEMY.

The problem is just one or two people who are VERY JEALOUS of your success and popularity.  People who are just as jealous of other personalities on the internet, as they are of the ones in real life.  Ignore their spit spat - and DON’T ENGAGE them.  It just fits to make you look bad, because when you strike out, you tend to strike at all of us here; and that’s not cool.

Gar,

I heard you out.  Fair enough.  You make some good points, but I really want to comment on some of the things you said but don’t have time…will have to wait till tomorrow…thanks for the thoughts and opinions though.

The only thing I will say now, is that maybe it is I just don’t understand where you guys are coming from?

My point is, whether you want to think I accept constructive critism or not is your view point.  I accept all thought and suggestions openly.  It is when people start attacking the systems that gets me in a defensive mood.  More later…

By the way, you can go to the Swamp and check out the photos from GEN CON on my end.  Dave did a great job on his end…

Thanks,
Greg

You must allow your opponent to use your dice if asked

Never!

Good point D.  Anyone who’s lugging AA50 around IS a fan of the A&A Franchise, and should have some idea of what they’re doing.

Time to evolve!

Djensen,

I agree with you for the most part.  My problem is with the formats of some of these games.  Again, I understand WHY Greg does this, I just don’t like it.  To me, you can’t tell me that playing 5-6 rounds in a 42 game or AA50 game determines a real “champion”.  It like you’re playing half a game.  So IMHO maybe there should be HALF a trophy. :lol:- just a little joke there.

Again, I’m not criticizing Greg’s job on the Cons, it just the way it is.  Time is always the issue.  That’s why, the “purest” form of AA tournament play is online where you can actually finish the game.

Well, I guess it was too good to be true, eh?

We had a wonderful GenCon with events going on non-stop and tons of new faces. Yup, we got a lot of feedback on things - most of it good and constructive. New faces will provide that. And yet, then, here, I get to read about all the things that were wrong or that sucked or that people who were not even there did not like….sigh…

I think we have covered how playing FTF is a LOT different than playing on-line and why the two have to be set up differently. Further, I think we have covered why playing in a FTF tournament with limited amounts of time is a LOT different as well from playing ‘regular’ FTF.

Q - you said that you don’t like this or that and you will never play in the tournaments because they are not set up exactly as you would want them to be. Well - that is YOUR loss. You miss out on a lot of fun that many other people who realize and accept certain parameters need to be in place. I hate to say this - I really do - but there is a large part of me that hopes you DO never play - because I would not want to have to listen to you, in person, complain about how much the tournament you just played in sucks so badly.

You also say that Greg (and by proxy, me) have not given you a good reason to NOT use computers and dice calculators at FTF events. I’ll take the low hanging fruit and respond by saying you have provided NO good reason to do so. But, if you insist…

a) it will slow the games down as people watch the other team input 20 different combinations of one less infantry or one more tank over and over to get to the exact balance they want.

b) there is no room at the tables for anything except MAYBE a smart phone or iPod / iPad. Things are already cramped in many cases - having a space for a laptop (or two) just isn’t realistic in most cases.

c)  Using a computer to make decisions for you rather than on their own SKILL at playing the game. That may be my “a-ha” moment. Part of the SKILL of playing A&A is figuring out what to buy and when and what to attack with and when. Using a computer to make those decisions for you seems to cheapens this. You talk about ‘purist’ form of playing the game - I am pretty sure using a calculator to determine how you play the game is kinda far from ‘pure’.

d) Lastly, and this will sound arrogant - Greg has been running A&A tournaments without them for 19 years now and with the exception of a few people who have never even played in his events, there ain’t a lot of discussion and pushing to do it. You know - the ole ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ concept. Greg can say we are not going to use them because I think he has earned that right.

I think I can speak for Greg when I say that our biggest concerns coming out of GenCon were a) formatting tournaments in such a way to allow people to play in more than one if at all possible b) changing the format of the qualifiers for the AA50 tournament in some way c) determining what changes to the AA42 2nd Edition tournament are needed (if any) based on our feedback and d) if we should add a 1941 tournament to the schedule next year and if so how to prevent ourselves from losing what little sanity we have due to too many things going on at once!

I hope someday you do decide to play in the tournaments and accept them for what they are - an imperfect - but damn fun way to spend a weekend (and I defy you to find ANY GM at GenCon or otherwise that provides as much in prizes and give-aways that Greg does - certainly not when you consider the overall population of players in all his events).

If we truly got a sense that we would somehow grow our ranks by making changes to the way things are done, do you not think we would do that? I can GUARANTEE you based on doing this with Greg for 5 years now and talking to many, many players, that adding things like chess clocks, battle simulators and the like will most likely drive people AWAY from the events, not draw them IN.

I am self-imposing an end to more of this type of discussion because I think I have said everything I can on the topic. Know that your comments are always welcome - but that they would be much better received if they were provided in a more constructive fashion.

Now - where did I put my dice - still haven’t found them from unpacking!!

MM

My comments in BLUE

Q - you said that you don’t like this or that and you will never play in the tournaments because they are not set up exactly as you would want them to be. Well - that is YOUR loss. You miss out on a lot of fun that many other people who realize and accept certain parameters need to be in place. I hate to say this - I really do - but there is a large part of me that hopes you DO never play - because I would not want to have to listen to you, in person, complain about how much the tournament you just played in sucks so badly.

Believe me, if I play it will only be because I agree to the terms of the tournament.  At this point, I am not satisfied with them.  G40 seems to be OK- mainly because I created it.  I’m entitled to my opinion, so I don’t understand why you have to bash one’s freedom of speech. :?

You also say that Greg (and by proxy, me) have not given you a good reason to NOT use computers and dice calculators at FTF events. I’ll take the low hanging fruit and respond by saying you have provided NO good reason to do so. But, if you insist…

a) it will slow the games down as people watch the other team input 20 different combinations of one less infantry or one more tank over and over to get to the exact balance they want.

That is assumption- allow it for a year and then judge not the other way around.

b) there is no room at the tables for anything except MAYBE a smart phone or iPod / iPad. Things are already cramped in many cases - having a space for a laptop (or two) just isn’t realistic in most cases.

No space???  False- it can be downloaded as an app on your phone.  In fact, if I played with one, I would teach and allow my opponent to use it- its simple.  Very weak point you make here.

c)  Using a computer to make decisions for you rather than on their own SKILL at playing the game. That may be my “a-ha” moment. Part of the SKILL of playing A&A is figuring out what to buy and when and what to attack with and when. Using a computer to make those decisions for you seems to cheapens this. You talk about ‘purist’ form of playing the game - I am pretty sure using a calculator to determine how you play the game is kinda far from ‘pure’.

Again, I just don’t see it that way.  It takes nothing away from the “SKILL” of anything.  I see calculators were allowed in the tournys (at least according to djensen’s pics)- battle calcs are only faster.  You guys have already allowed calculators. :?  As far as “pure”- ok, I agree, but “pure” is not playing AA up to only 4-6 rounds- that’s like playing a half of a game.  OK, so the winners are “champions” of a “half-game”.  At least that’s the way I see it.

d) Lastly, and this will sound arrogant - Greg has been running A&A tournaments without them for 19 years now and with the exception of a few people who have never even played in his events, there ain’t a lot of discussion and pushing to do it. You know - the ole ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ concept. Greg can say we are not going to use them because I think he has earned that right.

I agree, its his tourny- he has the final say.  If you really don’t like my comments or criticisms then you guys shouldn’t let it bother you so much- or don’t read the forums.  Instead, you give even more attention to it.  Please, stop the hate.  Its not productive.  I’m entitled to my opinion as you yours.  We agree to disagree.  Let it go.

I hope someday you do decide to play in the tournaments and accept them for what they are - an imperfect - but damn fun way to spend a weekend (and I defy you to find ANY GM at GenCon or otherwise that provides as much in prizes and give-aways that Greg does - certainly not when you consider the overall population of players in all his events).

Wait a minute, didn’t you just say you DIDN’T want me to come.  A little emo here maybe.  I might come.  If I come and play then that means I will have agreed with the tourny conditions.

If we truly got a sense that we would somehow grow our ranks by making changes to the way things are done, do you not think we would do that? I can GUARANTEE you based on doing this with Greg for 5 years now and talking to many, many players, that adding things like chess clocks, battle simulators and the like will most likely drive people AWAY from the events, not draw them IN.

Chess clocks yes only because of the costs.  Battle Calcs- No, its no different then the calculators you guys allow- only faster.  Have you ever played with one???  Don’t knock it til you try it.

I am self-imposing an end to more of this type of discussion because I think I have said everything I can on the topic. Know that your comments are always welcome - but that they would be much better received if they were provided in a more constructive fashion.

Hey, I try. :wink:

Sigh, it didn’t take long to lift my ban, did it?

My only comment is this - we did NOT allow calculators - Dave indicated he wished at times we did for purposes of buying units - NOT a battle calculator.

My thoughts on how changes to the tournaments will affect things are based on years of experience and observation. Will I be right - maybe, maybe not. But - my experience tells me I am probably right - I have played in enough, watched enough and talked to enough people to have a pretty good sense of what will fly and what won’t.

And yeah - you caught me - I said DON’T play and then said DO. I guess I meant DO - I think you are missing out :)

MM

My only comment is this - we did NOT allow calculators - Dave indicated he wished at times we did for purposes of buying units - NOT a battle calculator.

What happened here???  9th or 10th picture???
http://www.headlesshorseman2.com/id12.html

My thoughts on how changes to the tournaments will affect things are based on years of experience and observation. Will I be right - maybe, maybe not. But - my experience tells me I am probably right - I have played in enough, watched enough and talked to enough people to have a pretty good sense of what will fly and what won’t.

So you haven’t tried it???- your resume doesn’t mean anything if you haven’t tried it or given it a shot in a tournament.

And yeah - you caught me - I said DON’T play and then said DO. I guess I meant DO - I think you are missing out :)

meh…I won’t drive 400 miles to play some few half-games- no, I got great gamers and friends here that play and the best players at AA.org.
MM

@djensen:

@questioneer:

Believe me, if I play it will only be because I agree to the terms of the tournament.  At this point, I am not satisfied with them.  G40 seems to be OK- mainly because I created it.  I’m entitled to my opinion, so I don’t understand why you have to bash one’s freedom of speech. :?

Not to turn this political but despite what some politicians say, criticizing an opinion is most definitely NOT bashing or restricting freedom of speech. He can disagree without as a matter of freedom of speech himself. Finally, sigh, you are outspoken on some things, your opinion has been noted but if the majority of people want it or like it one way, then there’s not much you can do but accept it as reality and play G40 instead. ;-)

Tell that to MM

Ahh…in that case… 8-) and  :-D

"END TIME RULE: (See End Time Rule Handout) this is how game will end within the time constraints of the event.
"

Do you have any idea where to find this End Time Rule Handout?