I think Japan still would have invaded the Soviet Union though, if the Second Sino-Japanese War continued (the oil embargo only really happened once they invaded Indochina).
Other than that I agree with you. That would be curious alternate reality.
On this day during W.W. 2
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Sept 29 1939
Germany and the Soviet Union signed a boundary and friendship treaty. It formally divided Poland, giving the Germans control over the area generally west of the Bug River. The occupying governments said the partition was necessary “after the disintegration of the former Polish state” and Moscow and Berlin “consider it their task to restore in this region law and order and to insure nationals living there an existence corresponding to their national character.” Germany got nearly 73,000 square miles of Polish territory
, Russia,78,000. The Russians were permitted all of Lithuania ion their sphere of influence. An economic was also signed which extended the previous trade pact. Moscow also promised the Germans the entire oil output of the Dohowicz fields, an action which infuriated the British and the French. Russia achieved its gains through an invasion against an overwhelmed Poland and lost only 737 men in the brief conflict -
Dec 2 1941
Roosevelt - in a personal note to the Japanese envoys in Washington…asked Tokyo for an explanation of the Japanese troop build up in Indochina. The President said, "The stationing of these increased forces in Indochina would seem to imply the utilization or those forces by Japan for purposes of further aggression, since no such number of forces could possibly be required for the policing of that region.
Japans Cabinet was reshuffled because of “the deteriorating international situation.” The new cabinet affirmed the final decision to attack Pearl Harbor, and the code message to proceed, “Climb Mount Niitaka.” was flashed to the Naval attack force the next day.
The Japanese Embassy in Washington was ordered to destroy all but its most secret coding facilities . Similar orders went to Japanese missions in British, Dutch, and Canadian cities, Cuba, and the Philippines , and the
South Pacific
London announced the formation of a new and expanded Eastern Fleet. Britain in the past had maintained a crusier squadron, but its naval presence in Asia would now be led by more powerful men-of-war., The Battle ship “Prince of Wales” and the Battle cruiser “Repulse” arrived in Singapore this date. This announced action indicated the concern of Britain as it viewed Japan’s southward penetration. -
December the 13th saw the Battle of the River Plate take place between the modern and very pretty Graf Spee, of the Deutschland class of Heavy Cruiser, and two British and a New Zealand Cruuser off South America.
The commander of the Graf Spee, Captain Langsdorff, engaged the Cruisers as he thought they were Destroyers guarding a convoy. When he discovered his mistake, instead of staying at a distance and using his superior ranged 11" guns, he sped towards the Cruisers allowing their smaller calibre guns to hit him.
In very short time, he was able to seriously damage the Heavy Cruiser, Exeter, knocking out 3 guns. His ship was hit and serious damage was done to the fuel tanks. He decided to retreat from the battle and head for Montevideo, as he did not hae sufficient fuel to reach Germany.
It was to prove a mistake as Uruguay was pro Allied.
On the 17th he scuttled his beautiful and very successful commerce raider, shooting himself two days later. -
The Battle of the River Plate is notable as one of the last “classic” surface naval actions, fought entirely with gunfire, without the complicating factors of submarines, torpedoes or aircraft (though a spotter plane sent up by one of the British cruisers did subsequently observe the Graf Spee blowing herself up).
To his credit, Langsdorff did not cause a single human fatality (on either side) in the course of sinking the various merchat ships he intercepted duing his cruise. The way he’s portrayed in the British movie “The Battle of the River Plate” (whose cast includes Anthony Quinn as Commodore Harwood) is unusually sympathetic for a film – particularly a British film – of its time, with Captain Dove (played by Bernard Lee, who later iconically portrayed James Bond’s boss M) referring to Langsdorff at one point as “a gentleman.” It’s regrettable that the film veers towards low comedy once the action shifts to Montevideo after the battle itself, with Christopher Lee (another future Bond alumnus) playing straight man to an obnoxious American newspaperman.
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I share your love for the classic gun fight naval engagements. The Battle of River Plate to the last such battle- Komandorski Island, these battles catch my imagination.
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@ABWorsham:
I share your love for the classic gun fight naval engagements. The Battle of River Plate to the last such battle- Komandorski Island, these battles catch my imagination.
Same here. And an honorable mention goes to the last battleship-versus-battleship engagement in history, the Battle of Surigao Straight, which came surprisingly late in the war: October 1944
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The airplane, while great and one of the most interesting factors of WW2, removed the need for giant gun platforms. No more Jutlands! :x
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On the 7th Jan 1945 FM Bernard Montgomery held a press conference and claimed credit for winning the Battle of the Bulge.
I wondered what my American cousins thought of this….
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@wittmann:
On the 7th Jan 1945 FM Bernard Montgomery held a press conference and claimed credit for winning the Battle of the Bulge.
That must have raised a few eyebrows in the American press, at SHAEF Headquarters, and in the ranks of the US Army (I can just imagine the reaction of that other legendary egomaniac, George Patton). I once heard someplace that when the US – to Britain’s relief and delight – finally joined the war in 1941, the view which was cheerfully expressed by some British officers as they welcomed the Yanks into “their” (Britain’s) war was basically: “With our brains and your resources, victory is now certain.”
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On the 26th March 1945(yesterday, I know) Lt General Tadamichi Kuribayashi died, probably while leading a well planned early morning attack on American positions. he died on the island of Iwo Jima, after a intelligently run defence of this all important island.
When posted here, he knew he and his men would not leave it alive. Its proximity to Japan made it too important. he lived with his men and enjoyed their privations. There was no spring water on the island and the men, lost weight and soon looked like ghosts.Rather than defend the island from the beaches(a surprise to the US commanders), he decided to defend it from underground. He had his men construct 11km of tunnels, 5000 caves and pillboxes. He wrote a set of instructions to his soldiers, that specified how they should react and fight when the Americans landed. The fighting was fierce and his aim was to make the Americans suffer so many casualties, as to cause them to reconsider fighting and ask for peace.
Along with Yamamoto, Kuribayashi, is considered the best of Japanese commanders.
He was born in 1891 to a minor samurai family and graduated as a Cavalry officer in 1914. He spent 2 years in America and never wanted Japan to fight them after seeing their industry first hand.
He was immortalised in the film: Letters from Iwo Jima.
His body was never found. -
@wittmann:
Rather than defend the island from the beaches(a surprise to the US commanders), he decided to defend it from underground. He had his men construct 11km of tunnels, 5000 caves and pillboxes.
If they had existed in the US arsenal at the time of WWII, the method that might have been the most effective in killing the Japanese defenders inside their network of underground tunnels would probably have been to use thermobaric weapons, i.e. fuel-air bombs. The gaseous mixture can be allowed to infiltrate tunnels prior to detonation, and its explosive effects are quite devastating in enclosed spaces – with the added lethal factor that they consume the ambient oxygen and asphxiate the people who survives the actual blast.
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I was sympathising with the Japs on this one Marc and especially with Kuribayashi. Some think he may have committed suicide, but I think a last ditch, well planned attack, not Banzai Charge, led by him seems more in character…
He would have stripped his uniform of rank, thereby ensuring he was not recognised by the enemy. A pity, as the US commander would have given him a decent and fitting burial. His body could have been returned to his family.
He chose to die and be buried with his men anonymously.
We all have different ideas of what honour is. -
On the 27th April 1945 Mussolini and his mistress, Clara Petacci, were captured by Italian Partisans near Lake Como, in the North of Italy. They were trying to escape to Switzerland, then on to Spain.
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@wittmann:
On the 27th April 1945 Mussolini and his mistress, Clara Petacci, were captured by Italian Partisans near Lake Como, in the North of Italy. They were trying to escape to Switzerland, then on to Spain.Â
And today the 28th they were both executed. Their corpses were publicly desecrated the following day, unlike those of their German counterparts Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun who had arranged to have their bodies burned after their suicides to keep them out of the hands of the Russians.
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Morning Marc.
I read(and did not know) that in 1946, three men dug up his corpse and it was then missing for months. It was with two monks when eventually discovered.
The Italian government did not know to do with his body and it was 10 years before a decision was made.
To appease the Right wing parties in Italy, a crypt was built in his birthplace. It is quite some piece, having a large marble bust of him and being adorned with two marble fasces( the symbol of Fascism). -
@wittmann:
To appease the Right wing parties in Italy, a crypt was built in his birthplace. It is quite some piece, having a large marble bust of him and being adorned with two marble fasces( the symbol of Fascism).
Here’s a bit of trivia on that subject: there’s a church right here in Montreal’s Little Italy district (The Church of the Madonna della Difesa) whose interior decorations include an equestrian fresco of Mussolini.
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How cool that he can still be venerated.
These days it is frowned upon to use the “voi” form of polite address, as it was readopted by Mussolini and ,therefore, associated with the Fascist era. You should use “lei”.
Many old ladies still use “voi” and it makes me smile. I cannot remember if my young nan did.
Nonno would certainly have told her off! -
@wittmann:
How cool that he can still be venerated.
I don’t know if Il Duce is still venerated by Montreal’s Italian community (which is quite large: about a quarter-million people of Italian ancestry, roughly equal to the entire population of Venice, which is why we have so many good Italian restaurants in town). I’ve heard that the fresco is somewhat controversial, but that it’s been retained as a historical artefact. I first learned about it in a guidebook listing various oddities and little-known facts about the city, and I recall being surprised to read about this relic of the fascist era. I should go check it out one of these days. Another local oddity that may intrigue you is a plaque bolted to the side of a large downtown department store (a gift of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, as I recall) stating that Jefferson Davis once stayed at a house formerly located there.
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I remember you telling me about the Jeff Davis plaque.
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Thanks for reviving this thread, Wittman!
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