Alpha 3 due next week

Russia and the US enter the war if London falls.

Let the baiting of Sealion begin!  To hell with 9 inf and 1 art.  I’m buying naval on UK 1!

Crap, with the AA rules, 1940 is becoming more different from AA50.  I for one will have difficulty playing them both at the same time, when AA gun rules are now so different.  It’s a little like the transports going from hit soakers to “big bonus at the end for winning the fleet battle”….  :|  As far as being difficult to switch back and forth between 2 versions of A&A…

@gsh34:

Russia and the US enter the war if London falls.

Let the baiting of Sealion begin!  To hell with 9 inf and 1 art.  I’m buying naval on UK 1!

Naval or air, what with the airbases becoming super-fortresses.  :-P
Yeah, it might be a decent strategy to leave London nearly empty after UK1, if Russia and USA get to enter the war on round 2……

Trying… hard… not to … commit A&A blasphemy by criticizing Larry Harris… must control…

I can’t do it.

Once again, with the development of P40, E40, and all the changes after it, I question Larry’s ability to understand all the ramifications of the rules he establishes or changes he makes.  Exhibit A: Unlimited scrambling from airbases.  Exhibit B: The debacle of deciding what boats Italy has in the Med.

And now this.  Wow.  Does he have any idea what he has done to the game with his AA changes, etc etc.  I doubt it.  I pointed out to him that AA guns were over-priced after he made them destroyed upon capture.  Oh yeah, he says, I guess I should lower the cost to 5. <shudder>He says this version is pretty much final and will be published.  He said that about Alpha 2…
Wake me up when this game is truly finalized.  I think you guys are right - this Alpha 3 ain’t gonna cut it.  Nice try… no cigar.</shudder>

Well, I can’t wait to try it out, but I’m also very depressed at the results.  The shining light is an attempt to address the Russian/Japanese war.  I like that Russia gets Mongolia if Japan attacks them. (like in my house rules) but there also needs to be a reason for Russia not to attack Japan, right?

I also thought there was a reason no aa gun was ever placed in France.  Wild random air casualties G1 would greatly skew results, so taking it out means the developer can control to an extent German losses on these required attacks.(Paris)  Really dislike this addition.  I also don’t like his aa gun idea.  For some reason it is impossible to scrap the idea entirely and use the cardboard pieces as a new unit!  They are static aa gun emplacements!!!

Too early to get frustrated, but I think that hurricane scrambled more than New England…

@jim010:

Am I the only one who thinks Alpha 3 is a step backwards?

Nope.

I feel (just feel, never played yet) Allies gets even better in alpha3. Why :
1. Russia can rigth after London falls… which means Germany can’t have a turn (or 2) to turn around and still have initiative against Russia.
2. London gets 4 more hit points free. (AA’s can now take a hit, after they fired)
3. Paris can now down planes and gets an extra hit point (new AA)
4. Interceptors get downed before now (logical, but favors allies IMO)

Just 1 (kinna) help to Axis. Japan can now easily attack Russia without giving any candy to allies.

All other changes are somewhat minor, certainly not a game changer.

I say Alpha 3 is less balanced than alpha 2. OOB gives not a single chance for Axis to win. Alpha 3 is hard… only alpha2 gives a fair chance for Axis (say 40%, as major error for Axis is fatal, while still possible for Allies to win with major error)

guys if I read this, I have to consider that all of you have years of experience with Alpha+3.
Play first, judge later  :mrgreen:

I don’t see how any change benefits the Axis, who seemed to need the assistance.  I don’t see how this levels the KJF strategy.  I don’t see how this makes the game more balanced or better.  The AA gun rules are horrible.  I am not impressed one bit; moreover, I’m truly saddened to have gotten my hopes up for a nice balanced version.  So sad.

I agree with you guys! I’m kinda disappointed.

I will play it, but IMO it doesn’t look good for the Axis.

The only advantages for the Axis is that the Brits probably won’t get to Gibraltar and that India is less protected.

Sealion is dead, a Japanese attack on Russia is suicide, France is all the harder to get and Russia is as strong as ever.

I don’t see how this is more balanced.

Nevertheless I’m looking forward to play-test it.

Well, I have read over all of the new rules and I hate to say that I am not very impressed the changes that have been made… The AA guns in London will make Sea Lion much more difficult, the AA gun in Paris will add more damage to the German Air Force on turn 1, and the Russian/Mongolia rule makes an attack on the USSR by Japan much less likely.  All and all, it looks like the new setup takes options off the table for the Axis and gives more advantage to the Allies (who do not need any more advantages).

Perhaps Italy will be more viable with the new fleet configuration, but I will have to play test it to be sure.  Right now Alpha 2 looks like the more balanced game.

Wow, you guys are pretty down. All valid points though… Play testing will make the final case I suppose.

That said, how would you make Alpha 3? What key changes would you make (specifically) if you were larry? Maybe this forum can come up with a Beta1 (if enough agree) and play test it?

Just a thought…

Yeah, I think that overall Alpha 3 seems more detrimental to the Axis, Germany in particular. 
Japan wasn’t affected too much.  That change with the Japan/Soviet non-agression treaty doesn’t seem to be that big a deal to me, unless you are doing a strategy where Japan attacks Russia to help weaken it for Germany.  That new NO does seem pretty hard for Japan to obtain, although it makes good historical sense.
Italy seems to have benefitted a little.  I like their navy being a little more spread out and the of the tac bomber for the strat bomber.  It kind of makes the Taranto raid useless for the British since one major reason for it was you got to kill 2 of Italy’s 3 transports.
Germany has been put in a really rough spot.  I agree with most of you that Sealion is almost a non-existant strategy now.  Somewhat the same odds but 4 extra defensive soaks for Britain certainly lowers Germany’s chances.  The AA gun in Paris makes that attack harder, but to be honest, I often wondered why Paris didn’t have one in the first place.  Also, did anyone else notice that Germany is losing a Tac Bomber in Western Germany?  Used to be 3, now it’s 2.  As if it wasn’t already hard enough to sink the Royal Navy.  I don’t like that change.
One change I really don’t like is Russia’s ability to declare war on Germany if London falls.  Not only does it really screw up Germany’s chances for a decent Barbarossa (and may end up being a sort of reverse-Barbarossa), it is also very ahistorical.  From everything I have seen and read on WW2, I just don’t believe that Russia would have attacked Germany if Germany captured London.  For one thing, Stalin actually believed in the Russo/German pact.  He really thought that Hitler would honor it, even when the reports of massive German mobilization up to the Russian border came flooding in.  Also, the USSR was busy trying to upgrade their own armed forces which were in very poor shape after his purges.  Look how far Germany pushed into the Soviet Union before the terrible winter came, taking pockets of 200,000 - 300,000 prisoners because the Red Army was in such poor shape and had such inexperienced leadership.  Stalin didn’t want a war with Germany and I think there was no way he would actually attack Germany.  Plus, I don’t think Stalin really gave a crap about England anyway.

Honestly,  alpha 2 was close to being balanced IMO,  the only changes I would have made would have been, swap 1 DD in sz95 with one TT in sz 97 and move the fighter and tac in  N Italy to S Italy.  This would have given Italy a good chance to keep her two transports and gain steam early on,  thus forcing USA to build in the alantic earlier easing off Japan.

Just my 2 cents

@billinjackson:

Wow, you guys are pretty down. All valid points though… Play testing will make the final case I suppose.

That said, how would you make Alpha 3? What key changes would you make (specifically) if you were larry? Maybe this forum can come up with a Beta1 (if enough agree) and play test it?

Just a thought…

I like the Mongolians entering the war, but that’s about it. I’m not sure about the Paris NO yet. It might be good. I certainly wouldn’t have made Germany’s opening harder, or have made Sealion pointless.

I would have done more to split the attention of the US. Give Tobruk an AA gun and S. Italy a tac in addition to the strat bomber. Italy has a better fighting chance and the US would have to commit something to the Med/Africa.

G4 invasion of london seems to be the way to go now imo. G3 is now alot harder. W8ing untill G4 will now also keep the russians (and not just the americans) out of the war. The upside is that the UK fleet in the med will not likely get back up to defend sea lion. With Japan i guess i J4 attack towards India will be my strat of choise in the first game. The Island NO is now kind of hard to get and the Indian AA will be less effective. The fleet of Italy will take a beating and maybe going for a neutral crush will be an option to get into the middle east.

I am not sure that the new set up and the new rules will reduce the axis win-ratio but i do feel that there are less routes for the axis to go and that is a bit boring. There might be strats that have not evolved yet but at first glance i am not overly exited.

I am content that Sealion is now really difficult.  I’ve no problem with that, but now I am not sure how they can win.

I’ll have to start a game here in the coming days.

I really do like the new italian set-up, they are in a much stronger position then they where in A2. They destroyer and the tt will ofc be sunk but there is no way for the UK to mass up outside Gib and with german planes in s italy both the main fleets will be safe from attack on UK1.

It almost seems as the UK east med fleet might have to escape to the Indian Ocean to avoid getting sunk sooner or later. In UK1 i guess they can block but the blockers will get sunk I1 and then the AC will have to flee. They can also try and mass at Malta with some air cover but the Italians will be able to take them out there aswell. I guess the other option would be to bring the fleet from India and South Africa into the med to reinforce in UK2 but even then the Italians will have a nice shoot at them if they build a ship or a plane I1.

The UK could ofc build an airbase in egypt and fly down figs from the brittish isles to protect their combined med/pacific fleet but then sealion will become alot easier.

:?

To me it looks like Italy will lose 3/4 of their fleet instead of half in Alpha 2.

well, there will be a trade of for the germans, they wont be able to send all thier air out to attack the uk fleet, 2 planes will have to fly south, if they fly from holland or w. germany they can hit normandy on their way, that leaves 8 planes to attack the 2 bb:s in the north sea.

i would:

use 1 fig from holland to hit normandy togheter with enough land troops to take out the fig with out loosing mine (the fig lands in s. italy)

rest of the land troops in range to hit paris

the tbmb from poland with my bb and ca to hit the 2 ca:s outside denmark

2 ss, 1 fig and 1 bmb to hit 111

2 ss, 3 fig and 2 tac to hit 110

one of the attacks on the bb:s will be 50/50 if they scramble, i would choose 111 as the bb there does not have a naval base.