Right, no, you can’t.
You can’t land air in a neutral that you just took, even friendly neutrals.
Note that UK/ANZ CAN land air in a DUTCH territory that they just claimed. This is the only time where you can land air in a territory that you just took control of. (Note also that UK/ANZ can land in Dutch territories without taking control, too.)
However, I recall one game where we saw bit of a loophole with this (it was the game between me, gargantua, axisplaya, surprise attack and clyde85 versus young grasshopper and members of his Toronto gaming group at FMG last spring). In that game UK (me) got very lucky in a Taranto raid and then activated Greece in noncombat phase. I lost a bomber, tac, and cruiser but saved 2 fighters and carrier in z97. Then Italy attacked and sunk the carrier but the 2 fighters survived to land in UK-controlled Greece. Lucky again! That wound up delaying Barbarossa because German forces were drawn South to deal with that instead of going East right away. It was a great game!
Thanks for sharing, but that’s not a loophole
It wasn’t the UK’s turn anymore, so sure, any allied planes can be landed there during Italy’s turn after Greece has been previously activated.
Under the latest rules, are the USSR and / or USA allowed to declare war on turn 3 or earlier if London falls?
Under the latest rules, are the USSR and / or USA allowed to declare war on turn 3 or earlier if London falls?
Yes to both nations.
@latest:
“The Soviet Union may not declare war on any
European Axis power before turn four unless first declared war upon by a European Axis power
or an Axis power captures London.”and
" If the United States has war declared on it by an Axis power, an Axis power captures London or any
territory in North America, or Japan makes an unprovoked declaration of war on the UK or
ANZAC, the United States may declare war on any or all Axis powers."
Can a transport establish a retreat route?
For example:
Say Italy has a destroyer in Z92.
UK controls Gibraltar and has a submarine in Z94. Â UK player wants to get the submarine to Z91 to prevent the Italians from sinking the submarine next turn.
Can the UK send an empty transport to Z92 from Z91 along with the submarine from Z94 to Z92, attack one round, and if the attacking submarine misses, retreat both the submarine and the transport to Z91?
If not, what if the UK sends a loaded transport through the strait to amphibiously assualt Morocco or Algeria from Z92 along with the submarine, goes one round and retreats (land units staying loaded on the transport in Z91)?
Again - can a transport joining an attack at sea establish a retreat route by itself like all other ships can? Â Even if empty, or if there is no amphibious assault?
The rules appear to be silent on this issue, which makes me think it’s allowed. But as long as a transport can enter a naval battle in a combat move with no intent to amphibiously assault, I would guess the answers to my questions are both yes.
@Vance:
However, I recall one game where we saw bit of a loophole with this (it was the game between me, gargantua, axisplaya, surprise attack and clyde85 versus young grasshopper and members of his Toronto gaming group at FMG last spring). In that game UK (me) got very lucky in a Taranto raid and then activated Greece in noncombat phase. I lost a bomber, tac, and cruiser but saved 2 fighters and carrier in z97. Then Italy attacked and sunk the carrier but the 2 fighters survived to land in UK-controlled Greece. Lucky again! That wound up delaying Barbarossa because German forces were drawn South to deal with that instead of going East right away. It was a great game!
It sucked for me as I was Italy, and pretty much a non-factor all day… The dice Gods cursed me game. Why did you activate Greece turn one? I thought you landed planes there on your first turn.
As I remember it, we just got lucky in Taranto and then decided to activate Greece in NCM phase just because we had the carrier and planes left alive. We here hoping that you would attack the carrier and just maybe the planes could land there, and as luck would have it that’s what happened. Then poor Germany had to deal with the mess.
Looking forward to the rematch this Spring!
Page 30
Transports:
Unit Characteristics
No Combat Value:
Even though a transport can attack or defend, either alone or with other units, it has a combat value of 0.
Looks to me like a lone empty transport can actually establish a retreat route by itself, but still waiting for word from Krieghund…. thanks
@Vance:
Looking forward to the rematch this Spring!
Me too.
Can a transport establish a retreat route?
Yes, but remember that there must be at least one unit with an attack value participating in the attack.
OK, cool!
That adds another page to our playbook… Too bad all my opponents read this FAQ…
I’m Axis, my bro is allies. I stupidly left Norway and Finland vulnerable while pursuing an all out rampage down south through Ukraine to Stalingrad. My bro has a transport in the Arctic Sea. He also still has his cruiser and sub off the Leningrad coast in Baltic Sea.
USSR turn: the Arctic transport does an amphib assault on Norway’s north coast while he brings his lone cruiser off Norway’s south coast. He wants the cruiser to get an off shore bombardment shot. I say no, it has to be in the same sea zone as the transport (which I think is more in the spirit of how to play whether or not it’s “legal”; but I still think it’s not legal). Who’s correct?
Question #2: If any nationality sub can go thru the Straits of Gibralter (it’s in the rules, I checked), why can’t any nationality sub go thru the Danish Straits?
My bro want to move the above mentioned Soviet sub off Leningrad into the North Atlantic
thru the Danish Straits and even though I agree it should be allowed (with or without my permission) it seems that the rules say no. (And I do know that if it was a Soviet surface war
ship the Allies would have to be in control of Denmark but they’re not).
ONLY the straight of Gibraltar allows anything through. The danish straight was so heavily mined, and patrolled, unless you were authorized, and knew the route, you weren’t getting through.
As for the cruiser bombard, in other versions of the game, you were allowed to bombard from different sea zones, so long as an amphibious assault was happening in an adjacent territory, I believe that’s still the case - but I could be wrong.
As for the cruiser bombard, in other versions of the game, you were allowed to bombard from different sea zones, so long as an amphibious assault was happening in an adjacent territory, I believe that’s still the case - but I could be wrong.
A ship must be in the same sea zone with at least one offloading transport in order to bombard, in all versions (except Guadalcanal, of course).
Subs of any nationality can go through the Strait of Gibralter no matter who controls Gibralter. Does the same hold true for the Danish
Straits no matter who controls Denmark? I would think so.
Also, a Soviet transport does an amphib. assault on Norway off the north coast. Can the Soviet cruiser off the south coast participate in the amphib. assault by doing an off shore bombardment even though it’s not in the same sea zone as the transport? I say no.
No, enemy subs cannot go through the Danish straits unless the owner gives permission.
Krieghund is the official answers guy, and he just said that a ship must be in the same sea zone with an offloading transport in order to bombard.
In addition, the rulebook says “the number of ships that can make bombardment attacks is limited to one ship per land unit being offloaded from the transports in that coastal territory.”
This means that if you offload 2 infantry from Z112 onto Norway and 2 infantry from Z113 onto Norway and you have a battleship and 2 cruisers in Z113 at the end of the combat movement phase, the 2nd cruiser does NOT get to roll an attack because only 2 land units offloaded from Z113.
Edit: The italicized is incorrect. The 2nd cruiser can bombard because the rule is supposed to mean that you count the total number of offloading ground units. As long as each bombarding ship is accompanying at least one offloading transport in one of the sea zones, all ships may bombard up to the limit of the total number of offloading ground units.
This means that if you offload 2 infantry from Z112 onto Norway and 2 infantry from Z113 onto Norway and you have a battleship and 2 cruisers in Z113 at the end of the combat movement phase, the 2nd cruiser does NOT get to roll an attack because only 2 land units offloaded from Z113.
That’s not correct, Gamerman. The limit to the number of ships that can bombard is based on the total number of land units offloading into the territory, not the number of units offloading from the sea zone with the bombarding ships. In your example, the limit of bombarding ships is four, and they may be in either sea zone 112 or sea zone 113, so all of the ships in 113 may bombard.
To sum up, a ship must be in a sea zone from which at least one land unit offloaded for the amphibious assault (and no sea combat occurred) in order to bombard, and the total number of ships that can bombard is limited to the total number of land units that offloaded, regardless of which of those sea zone(s) the offloading transports and bombarding ships occupy.
Thanks you three for bringing and clearing that up for us all.
In addition, the rulebook says “the number of ships that can make bombardment attacks is limited to one ship per land unit being offloaded from the transports in that coastal territory.”
OK, that’s good to know - wow that sentence is easy to misunderstand.
I almost posted my argument, but then I realized it says “coastal territory”. I was thinking sea zone along a certain coast.
The rulebook sentence says the transports are in the coastal territory! That’s why I was thinking “coastal territory” was a sea zone. Do you see what I mean?
