German Strategies

@cdog44:

Hi everybody,

I’ve played axis and allies only a couple times, enough to know that it is very hard for the Axis to win. Could you give me some tips on how Japan and Geramny could get themselves into a fighting chance to win?

Thanks!

It all depends on what the allies are doing, the easiest way for an allied victory is a Kill Germany First (KGF) strategy. To counter the German player needs to use its air power and subs to destroy the UK starting fleets and keep them from landing as long as possible, buy tons of infantry and hold your ground, open too aggressive in the eastern front and you will loose western Europe. If you can keep the med transport alive ferry men over to keep trading Egypt/Libya for a distraction.
This whole time Japan should be relatively unopposed, you should buy multiple factories on mainland asia and push as hard as you can to Moscow. Don’t be dumb & buy navy, you should have enough at starting. With any luck and a poor allies coordination, you can take Moscow and the game will basically be over.
Again this is just one very common outcome for axis victory, it all depends on how the allies play, but if America is going for Japan, Germany should have the strength to take Moscow and win.

@cdog44:

Should the Germans buy a navy to try and counter any US or UK Amphibious threat?

I would advise against it. G starts with 3 subs, 1 is usually lost on the attack on SZ2 and the remaining 2 plus the airforce can usually deal with any landings on algeria. Any additional naval purchases for G are usually not worth the effort since the Allies can use destroyers to block any attack by the german navy. On the other hand buying 1 or even 2 bombers (if you can afford it) will refrain the allies from major landings until they can build a fleet capable of defending against the german airforce and the subs.

More precisely, as a rule I do on G1 5-6 attacks. Assuming standard Wrus and UKR R1, I send

1. SZ2 sub, bomb, fig
2. battleship SZ 15
3. fig, 2inf, 2tnk AE
4. 3fig SZ13
5. Counter UKR with whatever is appropriate
6. Taking Karelia either with whatever is appropriate

On non-combat I station the figs in France and I move all the ships to different zones.

I buy 6inf, 2 tnk and 1 bomb to be able to deter the allies from merging SZ 8 and to be able to continue trading ukraine and to continue pressure on Africa.

The strategy then is to get as far as possible in AFrica, trade Karelia and Ukr and keep allies honest which basically means make them to keep their navy united.

The problem with the opening is that it seems almost 50-50 that one of the critical battles will fail. Sometimes i do not sink the SZ 2 battleship, sometimes i lose two planes SZ13, sometimes the A-E fails and I have also once lost ma battleship SZ 15.

So are there any ideas for better openings?

@Granada:

The problem with the opening is that it seems almost 50-50 that one of the critical battles will fail. Sometimes i do not sink the SZ 2 battleship, sometimes i lose two planes SZ13, sometimes the A-E fails and I have also once lost ma battleship SZ 15.

I lost the battleship to the destroyer in 15 once and it was really annoying :x, however, it has only like a 4% chance of happening so I don’t worry about it too much anyway.

@Granada:

More precisely, as a rule I do on G1 5-6 attacks. Assuming standard Wrus and UKR R1, I send

1. SZ2 sub, bomb, fig
2. battleship SZ 15
3. fig, 2inf, 2tnk AE
4. 3fig SZ13
5. Counter UKR with whatever is appropriate
6. Taking Karelia either with whatever is appropriate

On non-combat I station the figs in France and I move all the ships to different zones.

I buy 6inf, 2 tnk and 1 bomb to be able to deter the allies from merging SZ 8 and to be able to continue trading ukraine and to continue pressure on Africa.

The strategy then is to get as far as possible in AFrica, trade Karelia and Ukr and keep allies honest which basically means make them to keep their navy united.

The problem with the opening is that it seems almost 50-50 that one of the critical battles will fail. Sometimes i do not sink the SZ 2 battleship, sometimes i lose two planes SZ13, sometimes the A-E fails and I have also once lost ma battleship SZ 15.

So are there any ideas for better openings?

I do exactly the same attacks as you described. The odds for any of the attacks against the UK failing are quite low actually:
1. SZ2: 89% attacker wins, 5% draw, 6% defender wins
2. SZ15: 95% attacker, 4% draw, 1% defender
3. AE: 90% attacker, 3% draw, 7% defender
4. SZ13: 99% attacker, 1% defender

It is quite common for me to lose 1-2 planes on the SZ2 and SZ13 attacks.

Yeah, that’s the same opening I prefer for Germany in 1942 also, down to the bomber purchase.  That seems to be a pretty good opening move there, Granada.  I know lots of people do an all land purchase, and I’ve been toying with a AC purchase to protect z5 to move infantry into Russia quicker and keep a token threat on Great Britain if the chance presents itself, but I think it comes down to what Germany does to react to the Allies G2 and on, which is harder to quantify.

Has anyone tried to take out both Anglo Egypt and Trans Jordan on round 1? I ask because I botched my Egypt attack last game and IMO that’s ends the game since the UK can cross the channel and destroy your navy and cut you off from Africa for good.

Is it better to try and win Egypt strong or give yourself another opportunity to close the channel?

@Col.Stauffenberg:

Has anyone tried to take out both Anglo Egypt and Trans Jordan on round 1? I ask because I botched my Egypt attack last game and IMO that’s ends the game since the UK can cross the channel and destroy your navy and cut you off from Africa for good.

Is it better to try and win Egypt strong or give yourself another opportunity to close the channel?

If you only take Trans-Jordan then the UK player can still kill the German Med fleet, using the fighter on Egypt, the bomber from the UK and the fighter onboard the Indian ocean carrier. To allow the German fleet to survive you need to take Egypt.

I normally prefer and all-land purchase on G1 (10 inf 2 arm mostly) but 6 inf 2 arm 1 bmr is ok as well and I also think 2 subs has some value in delaying landings and force the allies to build lots of destroyers. The sub purchase is especially good if you’re playing with national advantages. Those attacks are my combat moves as well, you never really want to be TOO conservative early in the game as Germany.

@Hobbes:

@Col.Stauffenberg:

Has anyone tried to take out both Anglo Egypt and Trans Jordan on round 1? I ask because I botched my Egypt attack last game and IMO that’s ends the game since the UK can cross the channel and destroy your navy and cut you off from Africa for good.

Is it better to try and win Egypt strong or give yourself another opportunity to close the channel?

If you only take Trans-Jordan then the UK player can still kill the German Med fleet, using the fighter on Egypt, the bomber from the UK and the fighter onboard the Indian ocean carrier. To allow the German fleet to survive you need to take Egypt.

I know this makes it harder to take Egypt. I was hoping for someone to give me a breakdown of the odds for both fights. Depending on what happens, Germany could buy 15 inf on round two if they went up five.

@Col.Stauffenberg:

@Hobbes:

@Col.Stauffenberg:

Has anyone tried to take out both Anglo Egypt and Trans Jordan on round 1? I ask because I botched my Egypt attack last game and IMO that’s ends the game since the UK can cross the channel and destroy your navy and cut you off from Africa for good.

Is it better to try and win Egypt strong or give yourself another opportunity to close the channel?

If you only take Trans-Jordan then the UK player can still kill the German Med fleet, using the fighter on Egypt, the bomber from the UK and the fighter onboard the Indian ocean carrier. To allow the German fleet to survive you need to take Egypt.

I know this makes it harder to take Egypt. I was hoping for someone to give me a breakdown of the odds for both fights. Depending on what happens, Germany could buy 15 inf on round two if they went up five.

Assuming R has killed the German fighter on Ukraine here are the odds if you try to go for both territories:

Trans-Jordan: (1 inf, 1 arm vs 1 inf)  89% attacker, 6% draw, 5% defender
Egypt: (1 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr, 1 bmr vs 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr) 76% attacker, 8% draw, 16% defender - keep in mind most likely you’ll have to lose a ftr and probably even the bomber to allow for the tank to survive.

Just attacking Egypt with everything available (excluding Ukr ftr):

(2 inf, 2 arm, 1 ftr, 1 bmr vs 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr) = 99% attacker

Just attacking Egypt without the bomber (instead sent to SZ2)

(2 inf, 2 arm, 1 ftr, 1 bmr vs 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 ftr) = 91% attacker, 2% draw, 7% defender

Considering those odds it’s amazing how many times the Egypt fight has gone bad when me and my friends play, and that’s with the Ukraine fighter since Russia usually just straifs Ukraine.

@Col.Stauffenberg:

Considering those odds it’s amazing how many times the Egypt fight has gone bad when me and my friends play, and that’s with the Ukraine fighter since Russia usually just straifs Ukraine.

One thing are odds, another the actual results. Odds are merely mathematical predictions, the actual results may only reach those percentages after thousands or millions of rolls. One example are the battles where the defender wins although he only has 0.1% odds. But if it can happen mathematically, then it can happen any time during the game (even twice or more in a row), because dice have no memory of past rolls.

Hey! :-)

1. SZ2 sub, bomb, fig
2. SZ13 battleship, fig (from WesEu)
3. AA Gibraltar inf, arm (from SEur)
4. (if Ukr fig alive or else skip to No 5) SZ15 2 fig
(5. Counter UKR with whatever is appropriate)
6. Taking Karelia with whatever is appropriate
7. Garrison Algeria (land WesEu fig, arm from Lyb)
On non-combat I mass in EasEur (all Germ, 2 arm from WesEur), inf+art from SEur -> Balk, preparing for a counter if the Russians retake Karel, WesRus or Ukr, and 2 subs in SZ7.

I buy 3 subs, 1 bomb, 2 inf, 1 art and place 2 subs in SEur and 1 in Germ, and the rest in Germ.

My strategy is:

1. Prevent an allied landing in Africa. With Alg inf+art+arm+fgt it will take combined Brit and US landings to make it happen, and even then I can counter from Gibraltar+the bombers. By taking Gibr I prevent brit fgt rush against my BB. I don t mind losing Lybia, I can counter later.
2. Keep the Karelia-Belorus-Ukraine line.
3. Work your way into Afrika.

Lame senario is not sink the SZ 2 battleship.
And fail to counter Ukr.

How do you stop Russia from advancing with so little land forces Advosan? What do you do if UK drops their navy in front of Egypt and reinforces it? You’d never get Africa.

@Col.Stauffenberg:

How do you stop Russia from advancing with so little land forces Advosan? What do you do if UK drops their navy in front of Egypt and reinforces it? You’d never get Africa.

1. I don t stop USSR from advancing.
In R2 they will breach somewhere (Karelia, Belorus or most probably Ukr or in more than one territory) and I will counter from EasEur+Balkans->Ukr, or from EasEur->Belor or Karelia. If a counter is impossible, I retreat to Germany, leaving 1 inf in EasEur, 1 inf in Balk.
The G2 buy depends: If I can t counter, I buy 5 inf, 5 art , 1 arm (usually 40 IPC) and place all in Germ and the arm in SEur, thus preparing for a counter in EEur or Balk.
If I can counter and retake all three (Karel, Belor, Ukr) I repeat the G1 buy.

2. I only hope the brits mass in SZ15, they can put there 1AC, 2 fgt, 1 CR (and maybe 1 DD) and I can hit them with 1 BB (SZ13), 2 subs (SZ14), 1 bomb (SEur), at least 1 fgt (Balk or SEur) or maybe 2 fgt (if in G1 the Germ fgt lands in SEur or Balk).
If they lack the DD, there will be an onslaught. Even with the DD, Germ will crush them.
The only catch is that I have to select the planes as casualties to the UK planes hits, since the Brits lack the DD, but still I win and get the BB alive.
Normally Germ will lose 1 fgt and 1 or 2 subs. Worst case, they will lose the BB and they won t kill all the UK fgt. The UK fleet though is doomed.

Germ loose ground in Europe, but it is easily retaken.

@Advosan:

1. I don t stop USSR from advancing.

Against an aggressive Russia that is doom for the Axis. If Russia takes and holds Bielo, WR Ukr that’s 31 IPCs for her. By giving her the opportunity to take Norway, EE and Balk it raises to 40. To make things worse Russia can deal with any Japanese incursions in India and China with leisure.

2. I only hope the brits mass in SZ15

Strategies that rely on ‘hoping’ that the opponent does things in some way usually go out very bad if the opposing player is experienced. For instance, the Brits can simply attack the German BB and TRN on UK1 with the DD and the bomber. It is a close fight but the odds favor the Allies. If the transport survives then the US bomber can take it out.

Germ loose ground in Europe, but it is easily retaken.

More important is that Russia gains the initiative to deal with Europe and Asia as it seems fit. G will force the Allies to deal with its fleet but once it is gone Germany is dead. And the US/UK can easily block any of the German ships by placing DDs to block them.

@Hobbes:

@Advosan:

1. I don t stop USSR from advancing.

Against an aggressive Russia that is doom for the Axis. If Russia takes and holds Bielo, WR Ukr that’s 31 IPCs for her. By giving her the opportunity to take Norway, EE and Balk it raises to 40. To make things worse Russia can deal with any Japanese incursions in India and China with leisure.

I m not saying G should let R keep those lands. If G cannot counter from EE and reestablish the Karel-Belor-Urk line it must abandon the anti-ship build (sub+bomb) for 1 turn, beef up in Germ and retake them. I m only suggesting G shouldn t press any further towards R, not before it raises 47-49 IPC from Afrika.

2. I only hope the brits mass in SZ15

Strategies that rely on ‘hoping’ that the opponent does things in some way usually go out very bad if the opposing player is experienced. For instance, the Brits can simply attack the German BB and TRN on UK1 with the DD and the bomber. It is a close fight but the odds favor the Allies. If the transport survives then the US bomber can take it out.

If G plans to let UK DD alive, G must adjust G1 buy, get 1 inf 1 art 2 sub 1 DD 1 bomb and block UK DD

Germ loose ground in Europe, but it is easily retaken.

More important is that Russia gains the initiative to deal with Europe and Asia as it seems fit. G will force the Allies to deal with its fleet but once it is gone Germany is dead. And the US/UK can easily block any of the German ships by placing DDs to block them.

Even with Kar-Bel-Ukr , R has 31 IPC and G still gathers 33, 2 IPC more, not to mention that the closer R troops are to Germany the less IPC G needs to dedicate to their annihilation. The Axis and especially Germany lacks initiative at the beginning of the game, because of its low IPC (merely 40, against a combined 30+24=54 of its close opponents, not to mention an american atlantic army).
Arfika (whose capture will rebalance the G IPC to 47-49 vs a combined UK-R 45-47) is the only way to Axis victory, and the key to Afrika is an anti-ship Medit force that will keep a steady flow to Arfika.

I know a lot of Axis players favor the strategy of a combined G-J push against Moscow, but it can never work unless the Allies screw up and let Moscow burn.