Prostitution

@Deviant:Scripter:

@F_alk:

So, you are against the right to own a gun then? …. would only be logical

No, actually I’m FOR owning guns. With the proper training and education, owning a gun can be a completely safe situation. However, you didn’t answer my question…“If I stole millions of dollars from a corporation, that doesn’t affect public safety either…should I be allowed to do that?” Whether the crime affects public safety is certainly a consideration into the legality of the offense, but not neccessarily the only deciding factor.

Well, stealing money can (hypothetically) affect teh public safety. The money you steal can’t be spend/ has to be re-earned through whatever means. That means, if this money is not “spare” money, then it will affect the safety in the sense that it will negatively affect some employees of the company (who get fired, have to work extra hours which frustrates them etc). Or the money will be cut from fire prevention etc etc.
There are more indirect ways of affecting the public safety….
if it was absolutely spare money, then: yes, it still is stealing, but the immorallity is dependant on what you (as the thief) do with the money. Having a million sitting around for interest and interest on interest is “immoral” as well (as it is not invested, and see above “spare money” without any direct need in the company): If you use this money to help ppl in need (like Robin Hood), it is a different thing from you using that money to do a nice around-the-world-trip.

I still don’t understand how the “immorality” of two consenting adults “affect me everyday”.
Can you explain that claim of yours?

Plus: even proper education and training for the owner of the gun doesn’t mean that the gun is safe. There still is his (untrained) son, the burglar who grabs it, whoever can reach it. That makes gun a danger to public safety. Just have a look how many ppl get killed by guns in the US compared to other countries (normalized to the population, of course).
( I know that Austria had 34 cases of murders and attempted murders with guns in 1997, with 8 millions austrians … im Germany there were 300 cases of murder, manslaughter etc. in 2001 with a population of 80 million … how does the US look like for that ? )

Gun are completly useless…

Why gun should be legal ? Because you need protection… Because some people feel powerfull with an handgun in their hand ? Tssss

Well if nobody had guns it would be more safe it is not a question of individual right but of collectivity, i would’nt want to live in a society with lots of handgun.

Also most of the time gun are NOT use for protection but for suiside, crime… and there is a lots of accident.

@F_alk:

I still don’t understand how the “immorality” of two consenting adults “affect me everyday”.
Can you explain that claim of yours?

Sure, I can explain it for you. :) You see, immorality such as sex before marriage and divorce, lead to destructive lifestyles for the child. It has been proven (through MANY studies) that children from single parent families are more likely to enter a life of crime. I don’t think I need to explain to you how an increase in crime can affect your everyday life…

@FinsterniS:

Well if nobody had guns it would be more safe it is not a question of individual right but of collectivity, i would’nt want to live in a society with lots of handgun.

FinsterniS, that’s like saying “If everybody shared everything equally, we wouldn’t need money.” Sure, theoretically it sounds perfect. That’s not how the world works though. Let’s think about this for a second. Let’s say, for the sake of conversation, that you made gun’s illegal. The criminals are still going to get the gun’s (regardless of what the law says) and now you have nothing to protect yourself or your property except a phone call to 911. I’d rather not put my life in the hand’s of a 5 minute response time, thank you very much.

Now, let’s look at the reason for actually allowing gun’s to be legal in America. Your right to own a gun was put into the constitution to (believe it or not) regulate the government! If the government was to become too oppressive and corrupt, beyond the point of being able to vote out bad politicians, it was up to the citizens to overthrow the government and establish one for the people. Sure, presently, it might be pretty crazy to think that the citizens could overthrow the government. They have the most advanced weapons, and the strongest military. (So just becuase Bill Clinton is a disgrace, it doesn’t mean we can “shoot” him out of office. :wink: )

The more realistic reason for owning guns, however, is that for many people it’s their only means of acquiring food. Many people hunt for their own food, and owning a gun is a huge part of that.

@yourbuttocks:

If some people paid other people to cut themselves, often against their will, you would call it a public health problem. Prostitution, very similiar, is the same thing

I’d say it’s similar to a deep level. You are forgetting about the fact that not only are the “knives” used to “cut other people”, but in the background you have gangs, hells angels, the mob, whatever controlling, to a large degree, the “cutting”. Now don’t forget that these people are “cutting” to buy drugs that they’ve been addicted to since the womb because their mother was doing heroin while pregnant, and she’s suffering no small amount of fetal alcohol syndrome . . . etc.
rant again
sorry.

@Deviant:Scripter:

Sure, I can explain it for you. :) You see, immorality such as sex before marriage and divorce, lead to destructive lifestyles for the child. It has been proven (through MANY studies) that children from single parent families are more likely to enter a life of crime.

Well, not marrying does not equal not living together.
And in the way you write: “sex before marraige and divorce” is immoral. Do i really have to get divorced before i can have sex grin?

No, really: MANY studies…… i am not sorry at all, but just as you claim the existance of the studies, i claim the existance of studies that prove the contrary. (and why do i have the feeling that your studies would be severely biased?)

What about guns ?

@F_alk:

What about guns ?

What about them?

@Deviant:Scripter:

@F_alk:

What about guns ?

What about them?

Why do i feel like you just read the parts of my posts that you like to read?

@F_alk:

( I know that Austria had 34 cases of murders and attempted murders with guns in 1997, with 8 millions austrians … im Germany there were 300 cases of murder, manslaughter etc. in 2001 with a population of 80 million … how does the US look like for that ? )

What about guns and murder cases in the US ?

@F_alk:

@Deviant:Scripter:

@F_alk:

What about guns ?

What about them?

Why do i feel like you just read the parts of my posts that you like to read?

Oh, believe me, I read what you said. I just don’t feel like commenting on it.

@F_alk:

@F_alk:

( I know that Austria had 34 cases of murders and attempted murders with guns in 1997, with 8 millions austrians … im Germany there were 300 cases of murder, manslaughter etc. in 2001 with a population of 80 million … how does the US look like for that ? )

What about guns and murder cases in the US ?

What are you trying to prove? That gun’s kill people? That it’s a huge problem in the United States? Big deal. Tell me something I don’t already know.

@Deviant:Scripter:

What are you trying to prove? That gun’s kill people? That it’s a huge problem in the United States? Big deal. Tell me something I don’t already know.

(1) i am not proving anything… i am ASKING ! I just want to see the numbers and relations.

(2)How can you support guns, but call the things two consenting adults may do immoral?

@F_alk:

How can you support guns, but call the things two consenting adults may do immoral?

Easily. Owning a gun is not immoral. Two people hopping in the sack together, so they can make some quick cash, is immoral.

@Deviant:Scripter:

@F_alk:

How can you support guns, but call the things two consenting adults may do immoral?

Easily. Owning a gun is not immoral. Two people hopping in the sack together, so they can make some quick cash, is immoral.

According to who?

Me. And the majority of the United States.

I bet if you ask the majority of Americans, they probably could care less if 2 people have sex for money.

You’re wrong.

Either way, morality is subject to interpretation.
Because you think its immoral doesn’t mean it is.

Nice arguement though…… :roll:

The majority of Americans back at the time thought slaverly was fine.
Was it?
Popular opinion, when misplaced, does little to support a logical arguement.

And thats assuming that you claim is true. Which you have no proof of.

Well, your accusations aren’t entirely accurate. I do have evidence to support my claim. Look at the laws that we have against prostitution in the United States. This is evidence that supports my claims.

Don’t compare pro-slavery to anti-prositution. They are two entirely different mindsets. I understand what you’re trying to say about the opinion of a majority of people, but it’s falls to deaf ears. This subject is not completely black and white. You can’t just “make prostitution legal” and expect the problems that go with it to disappear. You need to look at the big picture.

@Deviant:Scripter:

@F_alk:

How can you support guns, but call the things two consenting adults may do immoral?

Easily. Owning a gun is not immoral. Two people hopping in the sack together, so they can make some quick cash, is immoral.

i thought only one does make money….
just like i do when i give private lessons…
is that immoral?

and my question on how you can support guns is aiming at the potential damage they can do, compared to the “damage” that sex between consenting adults does. Please explain that, and i am still wating for the numbers i have asked you for.

@Deviant:Scripter:

Well, your accusations aren’t entirely accurate. I do have evidence to support my claim. Look at the laws that we have against prostitution in the United States. This is evidence that supports my claims.

…I understand what you’re trying to say about the opinion of a majority of people, but it’s falls to deaf ears. This subject is not completely black and white. You can’t just “make prostitution legal” and expect the problems that go with it to disappear. You need to look at the big picture.

(1) whoever thinks that laws and justiceness have anything to do with each other is a fool :) … esp. when your country is litereally run by lawyers.
(2) as said somewhere else, in Alabama inter-racial marriage is illegal (though not prosecuted anymore). Is interracial marriage therefore immoral? Why is it immoral in Alabama but not in Delaware?
Your evidence is worth nothing, it’s not even evidence. Look at the laws the neterhlands have… that’s “evidence” against your claim.
(3) you understand the point that Ghoul made, but you don’t accept it? How that? Because of the grey tones that exist when you need them, but not all the time (see the China-thread for that).

My new question:
What is bad about the situation at the moment.
What would be worse (!) if you made prostitution “more legal” or “absolutely legal” (which means, different degrees, grey tones, in what’s illegal, what’s being prosecuted etc).

As: If it doesn’t make the situation worse, why not make it legal? Less laws, less government involvement … isn’t that one of the basics of US-way-of-thinking? And it could always improve… even it doesn’t solve all problems overnight (again greytones that you forgot to think of or mention)