I prefer developing what you want rather than researching a bunch of stuff before you get where you want. Some nations can’t afford to research all that much.
HUH? you can develop what you want, except you cant get really impossible techs right away. Also, my system keeps the costs at 5 like OOB. The idea i am seeing from this new concept is charging more money for some techs, which makes it impossible for poor nations to develop.
If you just play the China rules as i have outlined everything is perfect. Why not try them once?
@Imperious:
If you just play the China rules as i have outlined everything is perfect. Why not try them once?
I probably will. Please note that since posting on this thread I have only played the game once, with the rules I stated earlier. I like the idea of US being able to replace Chinese fighter. I also ran a J1 simulation using a version of no luck and found that with normal odds, Japan is set up to take easily either India or Australia J2.
@Imperious:
HUH? you can develop what you want, except you cant get really impossible techs right away. Also, my system keeps the costs at 5 like OOB. The idea i am seeing from this new concept is charging more money for some techs, which makes it impossible for poor nations to develop.
Upon looking at your tech system again, I like it a lot better, and to a degree what you say is true. Your land tree looks good. Your production tree looks ok, but with that in play, you couldn’t get to naval production till turn 4-6, kind of rough for a production tech which gets best use at the beginning of the game. I like the air, except I think Heavies should be replaced with rockets. Why make the player upgrade his bombers before he can get better fighters? In theory, it looks good, but have you really ever used jet fighters? To get to level 5, the game would have to have gone on for roughly 10 turns. The sea tech tree is what I really cannot stand. Why should you have to upgrade your cruisers and your battleships before you can get super subs? All of the techs in the sea tech tree have nothing to do with the others, except the 2 cruiser techs which are on the same level. Also, your tech system assumes that one is playing with tactical bombers and mechanized infantry, both of which are not in AA50.
I like the air, except I think Heavies should be replaced with rockets.
Where they are on the tier is only as important as how much the techs impact the game. Should under play test it prove that they should exchange positions on the tree… that perfectly fine. My play testing shows they are fine as they are but you may have another experience.
Why make the player upgrade his bombers before he can get better fighters?
I think bombers are too viable at 12 IPC, The effect of this tech may prove too strong it it comes early because of this cost.
Why should you have to upgrade your cruisers and your battleships before you can get super subs?
I went Historical on this decision. Also super subs are 6 IPC and potentially a game changer if they come too early. I prefer more expensive units getting the spotlight first because its harder to buy them and glitch the game with hordes of them roaming around.
All of the techs in the sea tech tree have nothing to do with the others, except the 2 cruiser techs which are on the same level. Also, your tech system assumes that one is playing with tactical bombers and mechanized infantry, both of which are not in AA50.
Yes this is true. I assume most people own AAP40 and have these pieces and are eager to use them again. But alot of my ideas always try to introduce new units like Cruisers, which latter became standard. Sometimes you got to push the boundary outside the comfort zone. I could work on them.
@Imperious:
I assume most people own AAP40 and have these pieces and are eager to use them again. But alot of my ideas always try to introduce new units like Cruisers, which latter became standard. Sometimes you got to push the boundary outside the comfort zone. I could work on them.
IMHO, if you want to make house rules more accepted by other player, you should limit the range to the units in the game.
In other words, not ALL players WILL have AAP40 in their A&A collection. You know what they say about what happens when you assume….
here is is. All typed up and official - my ideas for AA50 strategic.
Paul’s AA50 Strategic
All rules are AA50 OOB unless stated here.
Changes to unit costs
Destroyers now cost 7
Cruisers now cost 11Changes to unit attributes
All battleships are equipped with AA guns (cannot be combined with radar)
Units with ASW capabilities can only detect 1 submarine per round of combat. (In other words 2 destroyers would detect 2 subs first round, 4 next etc.)
If an unescorted transport attempts to move across or into a territory containing enemy subs, those subs get to fire one shot @2 (3 with SS) per sub.
-Due to their heavier dependence on convoys for shipping, UK,US, Italy, and Japan are subject to Convoy Raids (CR). These are economic attacks, conducted by SUBs, close to enemy shipping lanes (ie. near an IC). Russian and German ICs are not subject to such attacks.
-On the UK, US, Italian, and Japan Collect Income Phases, for every Enemy SUB within 1 SZ of (ie. directly adjacent to) an IC owned by that respective country, subtract 2IPC from their collected income. For every Enemy SUB within 2 SZ of an IC, subtract 1IPC. If a SUB became submerged during this TURN’s Conduct Combat Phase, it does not do ANY economic damage.
-Multiple SUBs may affect a single IC, with damage capped at the Territory’s IPC value. Any individual SUB, can only affect one IC/TURN, but may affect multiple ICs/ROUND. (i.e. A sub could affect a UK IC on UK’s turn and then a US IC on US’s turn)
Based on AARe rules,
You fail to mention things like forcing a sub to dive (AARe requires a ship to attack subs).
OK, re-reading your rules, there are no detection rolls, it’s strictly a 1 to 1 ratio round one, 1 to 2 round two, 1 to 3 round three (etc). Interesting. What you have might work, but it complicates (perhaps unecessarily) battle for tracking detected/undetected subs. Need to play test.
Can subs attack other subs like in Revised?
Do subs regain zone of control like in Revised (besides the ‘unescorted’ shot rule)
Just what consititues an escorted transport? ANY warship? DD’s only? Only ships with ASW?
I think 1 IPC damage is max by sub, Perhaps something like 2 subs adjacent to an IC might give you 3 IPC Convoy raid damage to encourage subs to be closer to an IC?
NEW, BETA: UK starts with minor factories in India and Australia. Germany starts with a minor factory in France. Minor factories may only build Infantry units and may be upgraded to factories for 8 IPCs. Upgraded minor factories may be used at full capacity the turn they are upgraded.
I like this idea, although you said you thought it didn’t work in your own game plan simulation.
Question: are these minor UK IC’s subject to convoy raids? Only if upgraded?
The tech system is reworked. Here is the new tech process
Step 1: Buy Researcher Tokens
-Each Research Token costs 7 (Minor), 10 (Moderate), 15 (Major) IPCs.
-You must declare which specific technology you are rolling for
-You must buy a minimum of 2 (but no more than 4) researchers for that specific technology
-Once you have purchased a set number of researchers for a specific technology, you cannot purchase any more.Step 2: Roll Research Dice
-If this is the first time you are rolling for a specific technology, roll one die for each researcher you have
-Success: If you roll at least one “6”, you have achieved that technology. Discard your remaining research tokens for that technology.
-Failure: If you do not roll a “6”, your research has failed. Keep all your researcher tokens and continue to the Purchase Units phase of the turn.Double-Double Rule
-If you have TWO researchers, and this is the second time you are rolling for a specific technology, roll TWO dice for each researcher you have (ie. 4 dice total, this increases to 8 dice next turn, then 16, etc.)
-If you have 3 researchers, the sequence would be 3, 9, 27…
-If you have 4 researchers, the sequence would be 4, 16, 64…Step 3: Mark Developments
-If your research was successful, place one of your national control markers over the appropriate advancement box. Your development becomes effective immediately.
-You can initiate research on only one new technology each turn. You can however, be rolling for more than one technology in a turn (roll newest one first), and more than one technology can come into play on a single turn.MINOR TECHS (7IPC/researcher, ie. minimum 14IPC)
-Increased Factory Production – Errata is ignored – all factories gain 2+ production
-Super Submarines
-Improved Shipyards
-Enhanced cruisers – Your cruisers are equipped with ASW capabilities
– Your cruisers are equipped with an AA gun stackable with BB AA gun to hit @2MODERATE TECHS (10IPC/researcher, ie. minimum 20IPC)
-Rockets
-Paratroopers
-Jet Fighters
-Radar
-Mechanized Infantry
-Long range mortars (Advanced Artillery) – Your artillery attack and defend @3 first cycle of combat.
– Your artillery have a surprise strike first cycle of combatMAJOR TECHS (15IPC/researcher, ie. minimum 30IPC)
-Long Range Aircraft
-Heavy Bombers
Thoughts:
Not a huge fan of instant tech. In fact, they ruin a tech system, IMHO.
you make no mention of a counter to heavy bombers (like the optional escorts rule)
I think mech inf might be a Major tech (germany could use this VERY effectively, perhaps way too much so)
China changes
China now has IPCs, It collects IPCs as other nations and starts with 7 IPCs.
If the Burma Road (Yunnan, Burma India) is owned by the allies, China receives 1 Infantry for free during its mobilize units phase.
Flying Tigers start in Sikang instead of Yunnan.
Do China inf cost $2 or $3?
I assume they can save any unspent IPCs, correct?
Are chinese unit placement limits still active?
So the allies have to control all three (Yunnan, Burma and India) for the extra inf, right?
NATIONAL ADVANTAGES
Scrapping NAs
Glad to see that you scrapped these. NA’s are NOT part of AA50. There is no need to introduce them.
K.I.S.S.!
IMHO, if you want to make house rules more accepted by other player, you should limit the range to the units in the game.
In other words, not ALL players WILL have AAP40 in their A&A collection. You know what they say about what happens when you assume….
Thats why they are optional…
Based on AARe rules,
You fail to mention things like forcing a sub to dive (AARe requires a ship to attack subs).
If a sub is killed, or submerges it cannot convoy raid. You may still choose to ignore the sub (as per AA50 rules) but it doesn’t have to (and cannot) submerge.
OK, re-reading your rules, there are no detection rolls, it’s strictly a 1 to 1 ratio round one, 1 to 2 round two, 1 to 3 round three (etc). Interesting. What you have might work, but it complicates (perhaps unecessarily) battle for tracking detected/undetected subs. Need to play test.
Actually most of the time the battles ended very quickly, the subs all get detected pretty much on round 2, or the undetected subs submerge. For us it was Japan attacks 4 subs with 2 destroyers and planes–2 destroyers dive, the rest die. Then UK attacked back with 3 SS 1 got surprise strike (and missed) and after that they were all detected. We really didn’t have much problems with this.
Can subs attack other subs like in Revised?
As per now, no. That is, if either player wants to submerge first they can. I figure since subs no longer attack and defend the same, an even battle wouldn’t be even. Maybe make a rule saying that subs fighting subs get 2 def or something.
Do subs regain zone of control like in Revised (besides the ‘unescorted’ shot rule)
Just what consititues an escorted transport? ANY warship? DD’s only? Only ships with ASW?
Subs do not regain zone of control. Escort means that a surface warship moves their entire move with the transport (borrowed from AAP40)
I think 1 IPC damage is max by sub, Perhaps something like 2 subs adjacent to an IC might give you 3 IPC Convoy raid damage to encourage subs to be closer to an IC?
Interesting idea. I would like to test 2 IPC a little more.
NEW, BETA: UK starts with minor factories in India and Australia. Germany starts with a minor factory in France. Minor factories may only build Infantry units and may be upgraded to factories for 8 IPCs. Upgraded minor factories may be used at full capacity the turn they are upgraded.
I like this idea, although you said you thought it didn’t work in your own game plan simulation.
Question: are these minor UK IC’s subject to convoy raids? Only if upgraded?
I’d say no for now. Not sure. Actually the simulation was without the ICs. It was why I decided on that idea. With India +3 inf and australia +2 inf Japan’s odds went down below 50%. (assuming US fighter lands in AUS)
Thoughts:
Not a huge fan of instant tech. In fact, they ruin a tech system, IMHO.you make no mention of a counter to heavy bombers (like the optional escorts rule)
I think mech inf might be a Major tech (germany could use this VERY effectively, perhaps way too much so)
Generally, tech is bought at 2 or 3 dice (in our game) and the opposing player can assume that on turn 2 of rolling you got pretty good odds of getting the tech, so it kind of takes the edge off instant tech. I could change it to make it delayed if got the first round, but that would take the edge off buying 4 dice. Also I generally think that if you pay for a tech you should get ot use it as soon as possible. As for Mechanized inf, I changed it to moderate because I thought it was too expensive. Simply to pay 20 for it Germany would have to forgo upgrading 10 inf to tanks. (which already move 2) Additionally, Germany is not guaranteed to get it very soon with only 2 researchers. (In our game Germany did not get the tech till he rolled the 16 dice - that’s 3 turns after buying the researchers)
There are three ways to counter heavy’s. In the sea, get the cruiser tech. See if the opponent is willing to spam your fleet with heavies when you are rolling AA @2 vs each bomber. For Land get radar and build some AA; again AA @2 is a pretty good deterrent. In SBR, radar and/or Improved factories. Healing your factories @ 1/2 price totally nullifies the double dice of Heavy bomber SBR.
China changes
China now has IPCs, It collects IPCs as other nations and starts with 7 IPCs.
If the Burma Road (Yunnan, Burma India) is owned by the allies, China receives 1 Infantry for free during its mobilize units phase.
Flying Tigers start in Sikang instead of Yunnan.Do China inf cost $2 or $3?
I assume they can save any unspent IPCs, correct?
Are chinese unit placement limits still active?
So the allies have to control all three (Yunnan, Burma and India) for the extra inf, right?
China inf cost $2. I can’t believe I left that out! :-o Yes they can save IPCs. You must have all three. (I am thinking about removing India from that list) Chinese movement restrictions are still active. I originally had a different approach that was way overpowered when tested, which allowed china to move more places. I like this method, because it removes the round up/round down problem. Every territory they take is worth something. Additionally, manchuria and that territory with shanghai in it become more valuable. Additionally, no matter what China gets to place 3 inf the first turn. So unless japan goes all out and kills all 4 chinese inf the first turn, china has a chance.
Also thinking about implementing ILs rule about US replacing flying tigers.
NATIONAL ADVANTAGES
Scrapping NAsGlad to see that you scrapped these. NA’s are NOT part of AA50. There is no need to introduce them.
K.I.S.S.!
I said I was thinking about it, but if you’re in agreement Ill do it. I did like my china and British NAs though :(
Thanks for the replies. I guess I would live with the instant tech as I see your point about spending the 4 dice to try to get a tech ‘now’.
One thing I think might be overpowered (especially with 2 UK minor ICs in asian theatre) is
Also thinking about implementing ILs rule about US replacing flying tigers.
probably is not needed, but game play testing will prove this thought out.
so based on these rules… do the allies need a bid?
Any thoughts on how to decide who plays what side (via like a bid?)
@Imperious:
Why make the player upgrade his bombers before he can get better fighters?
I think bombers are too viable at 12 IPC, The effect of this tech may prove too strong it it comes early because of this cost.
I assume most people own AAP40 and have these pieces and are eager to use them again. But alot of my ideas always try to introduce new units like Cruisers, which latter became standard. Sometimes you got to push the boundary outside the comfort zone. I could work on them.
How does making it easier to get a bomber tech solve the problem of too viable bombers?
Despite having read the AAP40 rules and implementing some of its rules, I do not own the game so this would exclude me. I may get it soon. Maybe not.
@Imperious:
IMHO, if you want to make house rules more accepted by other player, you should limit the range to the units in the game.
In other words, not ALL players WILL have AAP40 in their A&A collection. You know what they say about what happens when you assume….
Thats why they are optional…
You don’t have a tree for those who don’t have the AAP40.
I actually might be fine with a broader type of tree. For example if you took all of the techs now and made a weaker (or greater for some tech) similar version of the tech to go for first. For example, before heavy bombers, you buy some kind of carpet bombing tech. before LRA +2 there is LRA +1. For jets there is weak jets - defend @5, and upgraded jets. Fight @ 4/5 you get the idea. Still some techs would have to cost more than others.
so based on these rules… do the allies need a bid?
Any thoughts on how to decide who plays what side (via like a bid?)
Heck, I only play with bid for PBEM. When I play FTF we generally just pick whatever side we want to play.
The reason I put the IC in france was twofold: The main reason was to allow germany to more easily build a fleet and move it out into the atlantic while still reinforcing it. The second was to give germany a place to spend those extra IPCs to prevent the need to buy 8 tanks 2 infantry. Its far enough away from Russia that hopefully it wont unbalance the Russian front.
OK, so you think it’s pretty even. and I can see that being probably true with these rules.
so what side do you want to play in a test game?
I have some time to try one, but don’t expect a turn a day, as in the summer months, usually I am not around on the weekends to be tied to a computer, I am out enjoying the weather.
So if you’re ok with that sort of game play pace, I will have a test game with you. Interested?
OK, so you think it’s pretty even. and I can see that being probably true with these rules.
so what side do you want to play in a test game?
I have some time to try one, but don’t expect a turn a day, as in the summer months, usually I am not around on the weekends to be tied to a computer, I am out enjoying the weather.
So if you’re ok with that sort of game play pace, I will have a test game with you. Interested?
Can I get back to you on that? I got to eat and have a couple things I have to consider. Funny you should mention nice weather since its been raining and thundering all morning here.
What program were you thinking about using?
Can I get back to you on that? I got to eat and have a couple things I have to consider. Funny you should mention nice weather since its been raining and thundering all morning here.
What program were you thinking about using?
sure. Just send me a PM or something. You were the one looking for play testers :-)
I am a battlemap kinda guy. Never really used Triple A. Is there any other one than those two?
What I like about these rules is that they should be usable in the 1942 scenario too. I actually like more planes starting on the board + a stronger China + Russia B4 Germany.
I don’t really like the jet fighters attack @4. It seems that the tech system wants to make all the techs offensive techs. I actually liked 5 defense jets. anyone else think so?
Perhaps this: Jet fighters defend @5 and are immune to AA. At the start of any battle each of your jet fighters get a surprise strike @1 vs any attacking planes. This includes SBR.
I was thinking about making a rule that makes panama not touch EUS. This would make the panama canal more accessible to any axis player who puts the effort into it. The problem, however, is that doing this would naturally make either Mexico or CUS accessible to the east coast. This would undo much of the importance of CUS since WUS would be only 1 space away from east coast transports.
I think that radar is a little weak. Perhaps make it a minor tech? Or make radar activate always active AA guns. That would be scary.
