Summer/Fall Spring 42 2E Tournament Sign-up/Rules

[Panther]

Understood, thank you!

[Cow]

My opponent was last active aug 5th. ><

[DarthMaximus]

@Cow:

My opponent was last active aug 5th. ><

Oh you know what, I think he is on vacation.  He should be back around 8/17.

Just in case, here are the other players who might be a little late or slow in responding.

geography (8/12)
craykirk (8/17)
Dedo (8/17)
rmorel (~8/26)

[Black_Elk]

Not sure if MagicQ will be delayed as well, but if you’re bored we could play a practice match Cow. 1942.2 is pretty fast paced compared to global. I could probably manage a couple exchanges a day.

[Black_Elk]

Or if anyone wants a casual 1942.2 play by forum game using the latest pre-release jar, it would help Veq iron out the kinks for the next stable…

http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/AI-Development-Discussion-tp7585227p7589059.html

[Cow]

We playing 9 vc or 12? or ?

11 or 10 VC  seems reasonable… allies only have USA and London then axis pretty much won.

[Cow]

Same thing if Japan only has his starting vcs.

@_@ there are 13 vcs total that is bad juju @_@

[Cow]

if we are playing 9 vcs… going to have to shift my bids to 30.

[calvinhobbesliker]

I think it’s 9 for the Axis, 10 for the Allies (i.e., 3 more than what you start with).

With 30 IPC’s, you can just put 10 inf in Caucasus and stack Ukraine.

[Cow]

9 vc is ridiculous. You can win with hawaii, karelia, and india. Yeah you need 30 ipcs to stop that.

[DarthMaximus]

We are using the +3VC from the FAQ.  So 9 for Axis and 10 for Allies.
This is the first tournament we are doing with Spr 42, so if it leads to “bad” games we can alter it in the future.

I’m not sure it is just going to be as easy to get those three.  Not to go into strategy but in a KGF, Fra and Rome are in play to trade by UK/US.  Kar is also in play to trade if Ger moves its stack to Arch or Wrus to go after Mos.  In a KJF, HI is completely out of play for J.

Again, this is our first go around with a Spr 42 tourney, so we’ll have to see how it plays out.  Players are free to bid accordingly.

[Cow]

A heavily favored axis map just got stacked.

[Cow]

I do not know what the FAQ has to do with anything, players always had to agree on what the VC conditions were, it is only 9 if they cant agree and it is 9 because Larry Harris believes in USA pacific, even though Russia cannot survive against Germany nor can the UK build a navy without USA for a freaking long time of saving money due to seazone / transport changes, plus Japan starts with more stuff and makes the same money as USA within two or three rounds.

There is a reason why this is among the least played boards, should just reprint 50th anniversary with an extra infantry in egypt and call it a day. Revised was a close game out of box and to slam the allies with 5 huge nerfs and expect people to play the minimum vc fast game win condition? I do not understand at all. I can see there was an attempt at making the spaces between Japan and Russia longer, but there is a route that takes 4 turns which is the same as the old one so there is no nerf there for the axis. Karelia starting with an IC is an axis buff. southern europe / Italy is only 3, huge nerf for the allies, previously if USA held it, that was 6 tanks a round and eventually Germany goes under fast, now it is 3 only, transports dont roll, TUV differential is now only 47 in favor of the allies (considering the allies start with 4 more ics which is 60 tuv… the real tuv value at the start now favors the axis) , however the # of units on the map between axis and allies is roughly the same. No safe seazone for UK to build in. I could go on, but 2nd edition for both global and 1942… still far from being close to an even game. Global I was disappointed because in alpha 3 I made it very clear to yall how stacked the axis was and 2nd edition gets printed with 1 less infantry in egypt than alpha 3, which was a huge slap to my face.

I am telling you, you will get 90%+ axis win ratios with 9 vc only.

[Private-Panic]

Oh well - the game is the game and we are all playing to the same rules with the same bid opportunities. Can’t get fairer than that!

[Cow]

Yeah but some players already started without knowing the VC count. No one plays 9/10, traditionally that has been the “fast game” suggestion.

[DarthMaximus]

We use OOB + FAQ b/c that typically has any updated rules clarifications.  The FAQ states starting VC + 3 for both sides.
Rules were stated in the first post of the sign-up.  There was also a post later where I did mention VC + 3 prior to the start of the tournament.

I understand the Axis adv and the possibility for what might be “cheap” wins. 
However, I’m not sure its simply easy to say the Axis are going to get those 3 and win.  It’s certainly possible BUT the Allies can do some real nifty things with double digit bids.  I’ll save any bid discussion for the 1942 forum.

The reason we are using OOB + FAQ, is that it is easy and uniform for every game.  We do not have a large catalog of 42.2E games on this site.  And without a large sample size to reference the best course is to use OOB + FAQ.  I picked what is easiest to administer and rule on.  If we get bad results, then so be it.  Then we’ll know.  I’m guessing by the time we get to the semi-finals and finals the quality of play will be high enough to where a “cheap” win won’t be really possible.  Either the bids will be high enough or the players will be good enough, or a combination.

[Cow]

This map is far from balanced. Bids will go into the twenties after the first round after the axis win every match.

[Cow]

The victory conditions just compound the problem plus you leave no room for players to negotiate vcs which is contrary to what people are used to.

[DarthMaximus]

If the Axis do have 9 VC, is it common for the Allies to then come back and win?
Or are you just playing out the inevitable?  You just want to see your yellow and grey hordes sack Moscow or invade Alaska and then Canada.

Cause if you are playing out the inevitable, then what’s the difference.
(that is if the Axis are stacked in Kar, Ind and HI without losing Fra or trading Rome)
It seems to me the Axis are well on their way to winning that game anyway.  10 VC or not.

If it is common for the Allies to comeback from a 9 VC deficit.  Then they probably shouldn’t have trouble keeping the Axis at 8 in the first place.

[Cow]

Well it is expected the axis hold Karelia and India by round 2 or 3. There is nothing the allies can do about it unless they get a 40 ipc bid. What can the allies take and hold in the first 3 rounds? Nothing. In this game the allies are screwed and have nothing to look forward to at all for the first 3 rounds. Then when they have enough forces to do an attack, the axis make the income the allies make and to make matters worse the axis start with more stuff and the axis took 2 industrial complexes away from the allies, making the positional map advantage even stronger.

Like I been doing 20 something bids for the allies and having no problems winning with the axis, it usually just goes into russia and russia has fun, I build 10-12 units a round (1 bomber 9-11 inf/arty) and eventually life is easy. Because with my air on france, I defend and I force the allies to invest so much into carriers and fighters that by the time they get enough transports to make a D day happen… Europe is already a fortress.  If they go KJF, Japan makes more money than USA after round 3, Russia is a cakewalk (UK cannot build naval without USA help). It is just a really silly game.