Basic strategy for each country in various situations (A3)

[ItIsILeClerc]

“A new reply has been posted while you were typing”… ;-).

@cyanight:

He buys a CV on turn 2 in Canada. USA only builds 2 CV’s on the Europe side.

USA (strategy = Stop -not kill- Germany First, if Japan’s actions allow it, otherwise KJF.):
US1 (52)-> Europe: CV + DD + FTR + 2TRS, save 4.
US2 (56)-> Europe: CV + 2FTR + 2TRS + 2INF.
US3 (52)-> Europe: 2TRS + 2INF + ART, Pacific: 28IPCs in the Pacific.
US4 (72)-> Europe: 2TRS + 2INF + 2ART + 2STR, Pacific: 30IPCs in the Pacific.
US5 (75)-> Europe: 2TRS + 2INF + 2ART + 2STR, Pacific: 33IPCs in the Pacific.
US6 (75)-> Europe: 2TRS + 2INF + 2ART + 2STR, Pacific: 17IPCs in the Pacific.
US7 (??)-> Depends heavily on the situation… Spend 17IPCs + Japan’s budget in the Pacific minus ANZAC’s investments. ANZAC should be able to spend on the ‘combined fleet’ by now, relieving the USA of some of the pressure. By turn 7 (ish), even the attack strength of the combined fleet should be sufficient to keep Japan from over-extending (attacking Hawai/Sydney).
Example: say Japan has spent 32 IPCs on warships J7. The USA, expecting the ANZAC to contribute 12 IPCs this turn, spends 32-12+17=37 IPCs on warships/air in the Pacific. The rest of its IPCs goes into Europe.

UK London (Strategy = react to the Germans and Italians. Stay alive and once that is secure, counterattack):
UK1 (28)-> 1STR + 1TAC, save 5. Germany built for barbarossa. With at least 3FTR, 1TAC, 2STR, UK is armed to strike a surprise German invasion fleet.
UK2 (40)-> 1CV (Canada), 2FTR + 1MECH (South Africa).
UK3 (29)-> 2MECH + 1TAC (South Africa) + 1FTR (London).
UK4 (28)-> 2TRS + 1FTR (where you want/need them), save 4
UK5 (34)-> 1STR + 2FTR, save 2.
UK6 (39)-> 1STR + 2FTR + TRS.
UK7 (??)-> 1STR + ?TRS + ?INF/ART. From this point on, be prepared to flood units into Western Europe.

I’m Assuming you move the DD from sz106 and  you take out the ships in SZ96 with planes and move the CV + tact + Fighters + CA to 92.  Do you leave the DD in SZ94 to block the Italian fleet?Â

I assume the sz106 as lost. It is more or less a Lucky hit for both sides if they win the battle there, so I “hope for the best but plan for the worst” ;-). In other words: whatever survives there will surely go to Gibraltar! Yes for the sz96-, move- and block actions.

Yes I build only 2CV in Europe. But I see the European and Pacific fleets as one, actually. For example, if Japan allows it (USA moves after Japan so it can perfectly Judge if so), the USA can move warships from the Pacific into Europe to (really!) speed up when it can show up in force at Gibraltar. The effect on production is, of course, that the ships moved in this way will be swapped from ‘Europe production’ into ‘Pacific production’ first opportunity (US2 or US3).

[cyanight]

ItIsILeClerc - used your strategy for the Allies last night.  I was able to retreat the CV, 2 CA, tact and fighter to sz 92. Put the DD in sz 94 to block.  Made the round 1 buy of STR + Tact on UK1.  Germany bought a complex and 3 subs so I wasn’t fearing sealion much. I play with the guy as a partner a lot so I thought I would throw something new at him and see how he reacts.  So I decided to follow you allied plan.  On UK2 though I sent my dd, 2 CAs, 2 STR, 2 fighters, 1 tact at Italy’s navy and destroyed all including the planes and kept 1 STR.  I backed the CV toward Canada to link up with the combine USA and UK Navy.  On UK turn 2 I also purchased a DD instead of the one of the fighters since there were still 4 German subs in the water. I plan to eliminate them next round.  I made the mistake of trying to save the smoking BB and DD from Canada by moving into sz 109 with 6 scrambles but Germany ended up sending 4 subs and 10 planes, so I let him sink it without risking my planes that have a secret mission in Russia, ;)

Do you try to destroy the Italian fleet on UK2 or do you leave it until USA enters the war?

I also changed up Russia’s second round buy to 5 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks since Germany built a transport in the black sea and an Airbase as well.  Only produced 7 ground units so I produced some tanks instead of the 7inf + 4 art on R2

Anzac - I decided to buy 1 TT and 3 inf round 1 and a DD + Sub round 2

India - I bought inf, tank, art and mech on round 1.  One of each :)  Then I continued along your schedule and purchased inf + 2mech + fighter.

We stopped at the beginning of round 3. Russia is still not at war but UK and Anzac are at war with Japan.

[ItIsILeClerc]

Hi Cyanight!

Nice, a report from a game in action, I like it a lot!

Germany bought a complex and 3 subs so I wasn’t fearing sealion much.

In this case the CV wouldn’t be required to sail ‘Homewards’. Just so you know that ‘my’ strategy is not set in stone ;-). But I see you already figured that out because you made some good changes as your game progressed differently from what I am used to.
So I get that Italy’s navy has been destroyed, including their aircraft? And what about the UK Navy in the Med? Anything Left?

On UK turn 2 I also purchased a DD instead of the one of the fighters since there were still 4 German subs in the water.

Great, I think I would’ve done the same. More German subs means less German land units means less need of units in Moscow (but Russia should not be getting overconfident now, keep building numbers). Seeing what Germany is doing, I doubt if you ever even need RAF in Moscow haha! But in the early turns you can do a lot with your RAF, they’re so wonderfully flexible. If they are ever out of position it isn’t taking too long to rebase them. Italian fleet is already gone, but ME might need some airsupport. For example to kill the German black sea ‘fleet’ hehheh.

I made the mistake of trying to save the smoking BB and DD from Canada by moving into sz 109 with 6 scrambles but Germany ended up sending 4 subs and 10 planes.

Too bad, the BB and DD would have come in handy later on, but this is a minor mistake. Nothing real bad will come from it.

Do you try to destroy the Italian fleet on UK2 or do you leave it until USA enters the war?

I try to use my common sense hehheh. I think my baseline stance towards Italy is that I will always destroy their navy if I can do so without loosing any aircraft. But loosing 1 or 2 planes for destroying the entire Italian navy is acceptable (as long as ‘my secret plan for the FTR’ does not come in danger).

I also changed up Russia’s second round buy to 5 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks since Germany built a transport in the black sea and an Airbase as well.  Only produced 7 ground units so I produced some tanks instead of the 7inf + 4 art on R2

Germany has bought 6 less (than maximum) land units GE1 and at least another 3 less GE2. You bought 2 less (than maximum) in total so far. Moscow will be safe, man :-). Looks like Germany is planning for some other stuff than hitting Moscow hard (as if that wasn’t obvious already GE1). My guess is you are going to need more fast units, unless Germany will still try to get Moscow. Just watch out for the possibility that the Germans try to get into Africa/Turkey, in which case fast Russian units may come in handy. IDK what Germany wants, but Moscow should be safe.

And what about the USA in Europe? And I am also very curious as to what Japan and the USA are doing, but there’s  no hurry ^^.

[cyanight]

Sorry for the late reply. Kids and family had flu last week :(

I managed to keep the CV, Bomber and 2 Fighters. Italy built a transport with a sub and has 1 fighter to scramble. Not sure I want to risk my only bomber on that. Nothing else in the Med can hit it right now though. I have a CV + DD in Canada and the other CV + 2 fighters in SZ 102. USA has 2 CV’s 4 Fighters, 5 TR, DD, CA, plus troops to fill transports. Looks like IM one inf short though so I will be sending 9 units over. Japan is trying to gain the coast and I have all USA navy in Queensland with a DD sitting in Hawaii waiting to block if Japan gets anxious. The next step is to start splitting the econ and buying - Europe: 2TRS + 2INF + ART, Pacific: 28IPCs in the Pacific. I have a huge mass of units in Yunnan but IJN has most of their planes in Japan and cant hit it very hard. Its only a 23% chance of success that Japan will take it. If it survives and he moves his air force down there I will need to retreat.

Attached is the TrippleA file if you would like to see everything. I tried to follow your strategies for the Allies to the exact detail but had to detour in a few places like destroying Italy’s Navy and building more fast units for Russia.  Â

I was reviewing to play an old game with Xeno(Skippi) last weekend and I could not believe what I had done in the past. The game was about 2 months old and since that time I have learned to become more stingy with Germany’s money compared to what I was doing before or in this game. I had bought 2 CV’s and lots of ships. It was turn and 7 Germany was still in Poland, LOL. What I was doing back then really surprised me, hehe. Needless to say I had to surrender to Xeno since he had built Russia up like nothing I have ever seen.

I do believe I’m starting to see why Germany has to be more stingy with their economy. Its like they are a juvenile with a credit card at the mall and the sky is their limit yet there always comes that day when you have to pay the piper, ;) Germany has to respect the Russian unit count and I was NOT taking that very seriously. Thanks for your comments ItIsILeClerc.

Ferrous_Pat_G3.tsvg

[ItIsILeClerc]

“May the force be with you, Cyanight!”
Don’t worry about posts when having a flu in da house ^^.

Not sure I want to risk my only bomber on that.

If you doubt, then don’t. Your guts are probably right. Unless it really threatens to kick you out of Egypt permanently, you 'll deal with this TRS later. Once the USA is at Gibraltar, there’s not much left Italy can do with it anyway…

there always comes that day when you have to pay the piper

hehheh, I like that.
yeah, this is much of the same insight that WILD BILL also shared: building up a strong Western army (either for defense or offense), will take away from the Russian theatre, which in turn will come knocking at your eastern doors and force you to pay the piper ;-).

In general, Germany just has to realise that against decent allied investments in Europe, it cannot wage a two front war for long without paying the price somewhere. The key is where do you spend and how much for how long. The best I am personally able to do with Germany is achieve a stalemate for a short while at BOTH fronts (no side achieves anything anymore). Since the allies usually still make more IPCs per turn at that point, it is up to Japan to deal the final (economic) blow, and that comes with its own set of difficulties… Turning east (Hawai/Sydney) may well see the UK take back India but securing this VC, together with some parts of the Middle East and more parts of Russia may well see Japan loosing the arms race in the Pacifc and therefore -the DEI and the Philippines (to start with), heralding doom for the Axis as well.

[ItIsILeClerc]

Since my internet security program now fully accepts TripleA as a safe program, I can finally look into files and start making my own (really helps to clarify a strategy). I started with your file from your last post (this thread).

Things should be going well for the allies if you can keep this up!
There are 2 things that I am uncertain about for the allies in your game:
A) UK&ANZAC DOWed Japan turn 2.
B) Indian forces are in Yunnan with Japanese TRS closing in on Calcutta/Burma. It looks OK but be careful ;-).

In all games that I played in an allied team where we DOWed Japan turn 2 the allies got themselves into a very difficult situation because of it. Those games ended either undecided or with an allied resignation because it really delayed the US entry. Therefore I never DOW Japan unless the latter can be set back seriously.
The Indian forces in China may become cut off from India and in combination with a delayed US-entry this looks tricky.

I also noticed you retreated the Siberians only 1 step in 2 turns but this may very well be OK since Germany has spent much less on land units as well (2 turns buying lots of ships&facilities).

[cyanight]

Yes, and I agree 100% on Yunnan.  It was a gamble and I should have held back so I could retake Yunnan again.  I normally never declare war on turn2 with UK unless I can block Japan from taking the DEI for 1 turn its the same as waiting 1 turn for Japan to attack UK and USA on turn3 except USA has to wait another turn if Japan does not take the Philippines.  Its very risky though and I probably would have not done it if Japan was in a better position with their air force and Navy. If Japan had a naval force in range to attack Queensland like from the Caroline Islands I probably would not have declared war.

I always forget to move the Siberians. This is the trouble I have with playing TripleA compared to playing on the game board.  I get tunnel vision and forget the far east, hehe.

[ItIsILeClerc]

yeah, I think that would be my main problem with TripleA as well; loosing the big picture, tunnel vision, whatever you want to call it. Definately easy to overlook things that you would not on the game board…

I think I am going to allow a lot of editing of ‘forgotten moves’ during an AAA-game, as long as it is done before the other side has reacted/is reacting to what has been done/fogotten ;-). If you can still follow what I am saying.

Very curious how your game will unfold. Not in particular about the allied DOW on Japan and thus the belated US entry, but, still more than just a little curious about this particular development (mainly because I have such, hmmm, ‘mixed’ feelings about it  at home :-D).

[ItIsILeClerc]

It is as I feared…

Working on a T-savegame for a ‘middleground’ strategy for all sides. I am recreating the last game I’ve played (as far as I can remember the details :P). The lost ‘overview’  causes some ‘editing’ of forgotten moves. Much more than I’d like. Of course we can scroll the screen but it is still different (to me, at least).

If you can overlook a little editing here and there (only forgotten/overlooked moves), it should provide a decent strategy overview, particularly for the allies. The axis are played conservatively and are trying to focus down Russia. Of course, the western allies have a different opinion and they are played much like I posted before. But as they say, a picture says more than a 1000 words so I think a ‘tsvg’ will do well to support the things posted before!

To be continued (I’ll post the tsvg when a clear winner is decided)!

[cyanight]

Sounds great! I was going to continue that game above last night but we decided to wait until the weekend.

[ItIsILeClerc]

I think I have conjured a useful savegame for a ‘basic’ strategy for all the Major Powers. For as far as my own experience goes, of course ;-).

The tsvg is only up untill round 12 and I think the allies will win this game. I see no point in putting more effort into it but what the Axis and Allies still can do can be up for debate ofc.
If you look at the ‘Stats’ tab (in the right hand column) -> TUV you’ll see the allies have produced 500IPCs more than the Axis and will continue to produce more. And this is even without bombing and convoying so the actual situation is even worse for the Axis;
Japan can still pack a mean punch but what they can gain economically somewhere (Africa?), they will loose somewhere else (Russia and/or the Pacific). The aircraft the USA has in the east coast can fly all the way to Hawai if need be and the USA/ANZAC can grab Philippines in the -unlikely- situation Japan takes Hawai and the USA cannot retake it. So far the Crystal ball predictions ;-).

For the sake of simplicity I had to make some overhauling decisions with the Axis and stick to it. Note that Japan could have produced more ships to cascade into a different game but 2 strategies cannot be put into 1 tsvg (as far as I know).
Basically, more Japanese ships means less US presence in Europe, a stronger Germany at the gates of Moscow but a much weaker Japan in Asia so Russia and the UK will have less trouble there. Rob peter to pay Paul, so to say.
  Germany tried to take Moscow but had to focus heavily on defending western Europe later on, succeeding only barely in the latter. Imagine what had happened if Germany had focussed more on Russia. Loosing West Germany/Rome would not have been a remote possibility but grabbing Moscow would still have been.

Well, anyway, enjoy!
Feel free to comment/ask/shoot but don’t forget it is a ‘basic’ strategy outline and cannot cover all possible variations from game to game. The only hint that I can give is that the allies can win the game if they retreat away from the axis and preserve their armies. retreating up to the point where it starts to hurt too much economically or military, of course. Please don’t mind the editing in the tsvg here and there… TripleA causes a sort of tunnel vision that I still have to get over (If I ever will), causing me to overlook some units/situations and press the ‘done’ button too quickly.

Round12.tsvg

[knp7765]

@joelv18:

A really tough but effective opening for Japan is to take their Pacific air fleet in Japan and take San Fran J1.  The ACC will bring the planes as far as possible, then send them off with paratroopers to absorb hits.  The best thing to do is to cut off National Objectives for the US once this is done, and destroy the fleet right off the now Japanese controlled San Fran.  It takes a big IPC bonus away from the US, and keeps the US out of Europe for a while.  By immediately taking the defensive after captured, you should be able to hold off, while an inexperienced US player will bash its forces against the Japanese military, while Japan will be able to slightly outproduce the US for a while, while a more experienced player will leave Japan with more time to produce in San Fran, while sending a few troops to Europe each round to attempt to outproduce Japan again.  It has worked perfectly once out of the two times I have attempted it.  Once you see an opportunity, try to take the Central US to destroy the US for good.  It is a very difficult maneuver, but it can be done, and is usually very effective.  As for Germany, take out France, let Italy get a few IPCs from that, and then, depending on if the UK is supported well enough attempt Sea Lion.  If not, invade Russia as soon as possible.  A strong Russian defense is the Axis power’s worst enemy.  Let Italy defend Western Europe from invasion, and clear the Mediterranean of allied ships.  If possible, take Northern Africa with Italy if it is left unprotected.  That’s my take on Axis strategy.  Not many people know how to play Axis well, but if you can start to out produce the allies by turn 7, the game is yours.

I don’t understand how you capture San Francisco on J1. Nothing that Japan has can reach the US West Coast in one turn.
Also, Paratroopers is a tech that you have to roll tech dice for. Or do you just make them a regular unit you can purchase in your games?

[cyanight]

Well done ItIsILeClerc!

@joelv18  - I agree with knp… Not sure how your taking San Fran on Japan’s first turn.

The ACC will bring the planes as far as possible, then send them off with paratroopers to absorb hits.

Um… Paratroopers can only depart from an Air Base not Carriers. In past history Japan had I-400 submarines to carry planes to San Francisco but only 4 were made and all were captured and destroyed to prevent the USSR from gaining technology. But still I cannot follow your strategy unless you have some nonstandard House Rules that I am unaware of.

[IKE]

As Japan has anyone tried attacking FIC turn one but waiting to attack UK/Anzac/USA until turn 3 or 4?  You’d lose the 10 bonus but would have a jump start on producing troops in SE Asia with a complex built there turn 2, while still having the benefits of delayed US war entry.

[ChocolatePancake]

I’ve thought about it a lot, but that 10-30 IPC is just too much for me to pass up. And you can always just put a complex in Kiangsu or Shantung instead, which is almost as good.

[joelv18]

@cyanight:

Well done ItIsILeClerc!

@joelv18  - I agree with knp… Not sure how your taking San Fran on Japan’s first turn.

The ACC will bring the planes as far as possible, then send them off with paratroopers to absorb hits.

Um… Paratroopers can only depart from an Air Base not Carriers. In past history Japan had I-400 submarines to carry planes to San Francisco but only 4 were made and all were captured and destroyed to prevent the USSR from gaining technology. But still I cannot follow your strategy unless you have some nonstandard House Rules that I am unaware of.

Sorry, I learned how to play with some crazy house rules, and am still trying to determine if the rules are real or not.  Sorry about that!