Italy in France??

[variance]

I don’t doubt that you think you can do it.  I was just asking you to clarify how its done.  I am not being sarcastic; I would actually like to know a reliable way to get Egypt early on and hold it until Moscow falls.  It’s not really clear from your posts above.

[wheatbeer]

I am very confident that there is no guaranteed way for the Axis to capture Cairo in round 2. This can only happen if the Allied player is very inexperienced and/or gets extremely unlucky dice.

The UK can get the following units to Cairo before I2:
3 inf, 1 art, 1 mech starting Egypt units
2 inf, 1 art, 1 tank Alexandria
1 inf Sudan
1 inf, 1 aa gun from Malta via transport (assuming the UK sinks SZ96 on UK1)
2 land units from India (via transport starting in SZ39)
The 10 starting British planes (this would be super extreme and you’d need to pick up the Burma fighter with your carrier by moving them to SZ80 on UK1)
Planes mobilized in South Africa on UK1
If the UK buys a mIC in the first round, they could also mobilize 3 units directly to Egypt on UK2

Obviously, it would be extremely unusual and strategically suicidal to do all that, but you don’t need to do all of that to be safe.

[1Bean432]

@Whitshadw:

@BluGerman:

Brits are going to back up France with RAF if France is still standing after G1, but no matter how many planes Britain sends France is going to fall. Now if Germany strafes France and leaves it to Italy then the Italians either lose a considerable number of forces or don’t take it at all and have to wait until I2. Either way this strategy is going to cost both sides much more money then if Germany takes it G1. The difference is that the Allies have the IPC advantage and can come back from losing its starting forces much more easily than the Axis can. Yes, this means Italy gets an extra 4 IPC and Germany can take out RN without UK scrambling and these are the definite pros to this strategy. But the fact of the matter is that this strategy means Italy is slow to take on Africa which is absolutely detrimental and even if Italy is making 4 extra IPC that is going to mean nothing If Britain takes the opportunity to destroy Italian North Africa. While subtle, Germany is also going to be able to make one less mech which might make all the difference when rushing Moscow. Germany is gonna suffer a loss of IPC for Italy which will not end up helping it’s ally much if at all. Seems like a loss for the Axis to me. I think it is a great idea for Germany to help Italy and while this was a cool plan to do that, it would be much easier and more practical if Germany took Yugo or southern France and pumped supplies to north Africa or just flew a few planes south to help it’s axis buddy. Anyways this is just my opinion and I stand to be proven wrong.

its not just the 4 Ipcs that Italy gets it’s the 19 bounces from sacking France. Which helps bump up Italy bump up its navy and able to reinforce its African force and finsh off anything left in the meditranian

All this crap that te Americans push into the meditranian best of luck with that strat it dosnt happin all at once it takes atlest 4-5 rounds so please stop with that idea it dosnt work out and 9/10 America lands in Norway over anywhere else then maybe Normandy with England following up.

Realistically at the end of Italy’s turn 1 it secures France and gets a 19ipc boot added to the fact that most of its navy is there with atlest 2 transports with 3 infra try and 1 tank plus the force it has there

If you guys haven’t tried it feel free I take Egypt turn 2 and middle east by turn 3

By turn 3 America even if in the war by then just landed in Gibralter and if there smart wouldn’t push any further knowing there force isn’t built up and too weak to truly push anywhere

If Britain stacks France then Italy cant take it round 1.

And if Italy is gonna go all out on Africa, then i dont see them taking it round 2 either. So unless Germany takes it on round 2 (which would render this strategy completely useless) then Italy wont take France round 2 either.

At this point France/Britain has stalled Germany/Italy for 3 rounds. You’ve already lost.

@Whitshadw:

Re-read this blog and look at the map and if your Italy with 29ipcs at the start of turn 2 you tell me how with no English navy or Airforce in Africa to stop you.

Yea, but there’s U.S.A

TL:DR
If Axis want Italy taking France then Axis must choose 1 of the following:
-Lose Africa/Middle East
-Lose Italy
-Let Russia live
-Play full defensive in Europe (Axis lose)

[Whitshadw]

The last to posts No and No

Say for example you don’t know my strat and are playing using normal an convential attacks as an allies player and don’t know my in tensions.

Your not gonna stack Egypt like that for defense I just ever see it happening nor will it ever unless I flat out tell you what I plan to do so don’t jump quickly to thinking this or that won’t work cause you assume you can counter

Normaly in the meditranian what’s England’s moves? Possably take Tobrook and seasons 96? Say you move most the planes to France Italy’s counter will to crush sea zone 96 with its navy and stop off 3 infinity and 1 tank back to alixandria

Ethiopia moves into Anglo Sudan the next turn since there’s no ships to threating I push with my 2 remain transports and navy using shore bombardments and a mix of fighters from alixandria anglo Sudan and a third transport I bought atthe end if turn 1 and Possably a Bomber if it survived

You all think that everything stalls in France in like most of you I’m willing to bet you’ve never tried this for your selfs I have on numerous occasions and have taken it so that added 19 IPC bounces and 14 Ipcs I collected from France and starting income I have 33 IPC to spend round 2 with England having no navy and planes to stop me … Nothing stalls and nothin gets slowed down it’s just making the right choices and playing smart.

[1Bean432]

@Whitshadw:

The last to posts No and No

Say for example you don’t know my strat and are playing using normal an convential attacks as an allies player and don’t know my in tensions.

Germany is strafing France? Then clearly Axis want Italy to take it.

Your not gonna stack Egypt like that for defense I just ever see it happening nor will it ever unless I flat out tell you what I plan to do so don’t jump quickly to thinking this or that won’t work cause you assume you can counter

We can, stack Egypt, then retreat into Anglo-Egyptian Sudan before your planes and fleet come. Oh, and destroy the Ethiopian Inf while doing so.

Normaly in the meditranian what’s England’s moves? Possably take Tobrook and seasons 96? Say you move most the planes to France Italy’s counter will to crush sea zone 96 with its navy and stop off 3 infinity and 1 tank back to alixandria

Sweet, U.S.A disables Italy.

Ethiopia moves into Anglo Sudan the next turn since there’s no ships to threating I push with my 2 remain transports and navy using shore bombardments and a mix of fighters from alixandria anglo Sudan and a third transport I bought atthe end if turn 1 and Possably a Bomber if it survived

You bought a transport? U.S.A IS SO SCREWING ITALY.

You all think that everything stalls in France

Because you do. No question about it.

In like most of you I’m willing to bet you’ve never tried this for your selfs

Who hasn’t?

I have on numerous occasions and have taken it so that added 19 IPC

After losing 20 IPCs of troops.

bounces and 14 Ipcs I collected from France and starting income I have 33 IPC to spend round 2 with England having no navy and planes to stop me

… Nothing stalls

France stalls.

and nothin gets slowed down it’s just making the right choices and playing smart.

Playing smart on the allies part would mean you already lost.
Actually no. Smart play on the Axis would mean France falling to Germany round 1

[Whitshadw]

@1Bean432:

@Whitshadw:

The last to posts No and No

Say for example you don’t know my strat and are playing using normal an convential attacks as an allies player and don’t know my in tensions.

Germany is strafing France? Lol, Axis want Italy to take it.

Your not gonna stack Egypt like that for defense I just ever see it happening nor will it ever unless I flat out tell you what I plan to do so don’t jump quickly to thinking this or that won’t work cause you assume you can counter

We can, stack Egypt, then retreat into Anglo-Egyptian Sudan and destroy the Ethiopian Inf while doing so.

Normaly in the meditranian what’s England’s moves? Possably take Tobrook and seasons 96? Say you move most the planes to France Italy’s counter will to crush sea zone 96 with its navy and stop off 3 infinity and 1 tank back to alixandria

Sweet, U.S.A disables Italy.

Ethiopia moves into Anglo Sudan the next turn since there’s no ships to threating I push with my 2 remain transports and navy using shore bombardments and a mix of fighters from alixandria anglo Sudan and a third transport I bought atthe end if turn 1 and Possably a Bomber if it survived

You bought a transport? LOL U.S.A IS SO SCREWING ITALY.

You all think that everything stalls in France

Because you do. No question about it.

in like most of you I’m willing to bet you’ve never tried this for your selfs I have on numerous occasions and have taken it so that added 19 IPC

After losing 20 IPCs of troops.

bounces and 14 Ipcs I collected from France and starting income I have 33 IPC to spend round 2 with England having no navy and planes to stop me

… Nothing stalls

France stalls.

and nothin gets slowed down it’s just making the right choices and playing smart.

Playing smart on the allies part would mean you already lost.
Actually no. Smart play on the Axis would mean France falling to Germany round 1

Lol US takes
What and when round 3 lol I clearly need someone a bit more experianced in this game to talk tactics this clearly isn’t working
Anyways I’m done I’ve explained it I’ve played countless players on all levels of experiance and understand there’s more then one correct way of winning happy gaming everyone :)

[1Bean432]

@Whitshadw:

Lol US takes
What and when round 3 lol

Depends on when Japan declares.

U.S.A could be west of Gibraltar on turn 3, 4, or 5.

U.S.A does not take anything. They instead sit their and force Italy to turtle. Which is why people say that Italy cant take Africa.

I’d also like to say a root question:
Italy loses 20ish IPCs on average trying to take France. So the extra $$$ is only replacing what shouldn’t of been lost in the first place.

[wheatbeer]

@Whitshadw:

Your not gonna stack Egypt like that for defense I just ever see it happening nor will it ever unless I flat out tell you what I plan to do so don’t jump quickly to thinking this or that won’t work cause you assume you can counter

You only need a fraction of what I listed to keep Egypt safe through the end of round 2. You can’t rely on the Allies being negligent and call it a strategy.

[Derek]

You also realize that in order for Italy to actually get 19 IPCs round 2 all if the axis must hold off from taking any France tts until France falls!
This includes Normandy and south France (5IPCs)
Meaning now 5 less IPCS less Germany on top of the 23 for not taking France G1

IMO this strategy is so flawed it’s silly, and I’m beginning to wonder if we’re not just arguing with a couple noobs. (No offense but this has to he pointed out)

[Whitshadw]

@Uncrustable:

You also realize that in order for Italy to actually get 19 IPCs round 2 all if the axis must hold off from taking any France tts until France falls!
This includes Normandy and south France (5IPCs)
Meaning now 5 less IPCS less Germany on top of the 23 for not taking France G1

IMO this strategy is so flawed it’s silly, and I’m beginning to wonder if we’re not just arguing with a couple noobs. (No offense but this has to he pointed out)

I’m sorry this guy is lost or dosnt understand how this game works basicaly my last post in this matter.
I’ve stated again I’ve played in tournaments and countless levels of expertise from novice to finalist and there’s no one clear way to win you use any advantage to win and sometimes play and use tactics that are unconvential

Yes Italy may loose up to 20ipcs worth of men to gain 19 from sacking France and 4 for the value of the teratory. But Endland would loose up to 50+ by stacking most of there fighters last I checked 20<50 for value correct?

Also while yes America just sits at Gebralter that dosnt stop transports ferrying troops over and having part of the German Airforce covering France/Italy to counter any attack

All of France can fall in one Turn so I have no idea what this kid is talking about. And this is all round 1 threw 2 movements round 5 is to late to just have America sit at Gebralter and think it’s doing anything. The idea behind this is too flood Africa and push into Iraq ASAP.

Blows my mind how people are so short sited with just seeing things one way and just reply with America rushs in lol
Anyways I’m done try it … It’ll work and mouths will drop other wise no point arguing with inexperianced players

[wheatbeer]

For the record, I am not among those saying that I leaving Paris for Italy is always a bad idea. I am just skeptical about some of your related discussion.

For example:
@Whitshadw:

For one it’s safe to say that anyone playing as Germany will Clear out the Atlantic as best you can. I personally like to clear out the two destroyers and transports as manditory, and the English Channel and off Scotland.

This quote makes it sound like you attack all four of the following Sea Zones: SZ106, SZ109, SZ110, and SZ111 on G1.

Is that what you intended to indicate?

[Whitshadw]

@wheatbeer:

For the record, I am not among those saying that I leaving Paris for Italy is always a bad idea. I am just skeptical about some of your related discussion.

For example:
@Whitshadw:

For one it’s safe to say that anyone playing as Germany will Clear out the Atlantic as best you can. I personally like to clear out the two destroyers and transports as manditory, and the English Channel and off Scotland.

This quote makes it sound like you attack all four of the following Sea Zones: SZ106, SZ109, SZ110, and SZ111 on G1.

Is that what you intended to indicate?

allways with 2 subs each at sea zone 106 and 109 in 110 I use 1 sub and 3/4 the weight of the German Airforce and in 112 1 battleship 2 bombers 1 fighter and 1 tactical bomber completly clears out the Atlantic minus the Americans and 91

If England chooses to scramble it further helps my resolve that then they can’t support France later for Italy or if the scramble for 109 dosnt matter all I need is 1 hit and I will sink both ships

[wheatbeer]

1. A single hit in SZ109 will not sink both UK ships if the UK scrambled there. That would only happen if the UK failed to sink both German submarines in the first round of combat.

2. If that is how you distribute your units, that leaves 1 sub, 3 fighter, 3 tact as the only possible units left to attack SZ110. That gives Germany only a 42% chance of victory if the UK scrambles into SZ110.

[Whitshadw]

Subs can’t hit or attack planes so yes I only need 1 hit in a destroyer to sink that since the transport can’t counter it’s gone. Plus your gonna Either scramble for that one transport to save it or for your capital ships. Also if the sub hits ither cruser can’t counter.
And again its all on the dice if I’m rolling what 1 2 3 at 3 and 3 at 4 if I manage 4 hits that sinks all the ships unless he feels it’s prudent to pick apart his Airforce

Normaly that’s my attack and most times no one scrambles cause they like to actualy have England play and do something othe wise both navy and Airforce is decamated but that’s how I normaly clear it out I meen there’s some small
Things I can move around not much but basicaly
It

[wheatbeer]

Just to be sure we’re on the same page, the scenario I am describing is as follows:

SZ109 round 1
Germany: 2 subs: 1 hit
UK: 1 transport, 1 destroyer, 4 fighters: 2 or more hits

There would be no round 2 as both German submarines would be sunk. The single German hit must be allocated to the destroyer. Without a second hit and with no round 2, the transport is safe. If you don’t believe me, then I urge you to consult Krieghund in the FAQ (he helped develop the game and is absolutely authoritative).

[Whitshadw]

100% I agree with you about that no question but then for the other battle with the 2 Crusers and 1 battleships wouldn’t matter then cause the planes wouldn’t help tha cause but correct if you chose to scramble with 2 for the 2 subs and I knocked out just the Destroyer the transport would be alive and the planes would retreat 1 transport would hardly cause me to worry about anything this early on plus

I would probably have the other 1 or 2 subs from the previous attack later track it down but yeah were on the same page

[wheatbeer]

Okay, I see your logic now.

I have to say that if were playing the Allies, I would scramble 1 fighter from Scotland to SZ109 (might get lucky, no reason not to) and scramble 3 fighters from London to SZ110. I believe this will tend to hurt Germany more than it hurts the UK since German will likely lose all 6 planes and become far less of a threat.

Of course this would mean that the Allies won’t have the resources to bother trying to stop Italy from finishing off Paris, but I think it’s still worth it.

[Whitshadw]

I agree with you but only again it’s easy to say it now cause you know what I’m going for (your navy) it depends on the rolls again we have all had those games where no matter how impressive your attack is you still loose or win just barely my goal would be just to take the ships in 1 turn allow you to counter and then pull
My planes back you keep your Airforce and I loose 1 sub and maybe 1-2 planes this way I still clear out your navy since you didn’t scramble for the subs and the battle off Scottland I’d still pull a head since the battle ship can take two hits and pull back. But yeahat the end of the round my objective would be complete.

[wheatbeer]

Retreat after sinking most/all SZ110 ships would mitigate the damage to Germany and with average dice, should work well. The difference of opinion here is more about how much risk to assume (which is more an issue of personal preference).

I am glad I understand your G1 naval combat movement now. Hopefully, the explanation will help other people see where you’re coming from.

I play a great deal of G40 (100+ games on the forums here), and I have to say, most of my opponents reinforce Egypt and do not conduct an attack on Tobruk. Usually in site’s league, the Allies end up with a bid which includes a Mediterranean sub and they tend to attack both SZ96 and SZ97 on UK1.

[Whitshadw]

Ah no worries brother again I love to think and play outside the box big time and with Italy ofcorse it all boils down what England dose and dosnt do if that’s there moved I just advance further to alixandria if I have my 2 transports left reinforce Alexandria with 3 more men and 1 tank and wait to push turn 2 to take Egypt from 2 or 3 sides if I have my Capital ships still alive ( again depending if England sent planes to France or not depends on if my ships will live) but if they do I’ll surely have them for round 2 I’ll be able to use my Bomber battleship/cruser for
Bombardments any men from Anglo/Sudan and my force in alixandria to push into Egypt at that point.

All this can be moot or negated to what England dose or dosnt but if your playing the ((typical)) opponent then this is how and what I do

Also I for got to mention I do move some German planes at the end of G1 to Italy depending on if I decide to take southern France or not depends if I teen force southern Italy with 1 fighter and 1 tactical but that’s again depending whom I play and what I’m aiming for