I agreed with both Kion and you mr Roboto. And respected both of your opinions as they are insightful.
You pointed out a lot of things aswell did Kion,
However both Kion and I agreed (unless I am completely mistaken) on what are the best prices regarding gameplay/balance
And he used the math you speak on to prove it
We did initially disagree on carriers, but he was right to leave them at 16
The thread however was hijacked by red harvest
Yes deleting the entire thread was probably rash, I should have just ignored the run away train that the thread was turning into., and to Kion and baron m I apologize. Both had some very insightful posts
Maybe a mod can restore it
@Imperious:
Look the thread was moved because freaking house rules or anything not actually about the OOB rules for Global dont belong here. Check house rules.
Anything regarding software or computer related versions go in software.
Nothing was removed, just moved
IL is right, a thread created to discuss a suggested cost modification to naval units belongs in the house rules forum.
I suggested 2 weeks ago that Global house rules be allowed in this forum, however I was later convinced that it would be a bad idea because new online members would get confused about what’s a legit rule, and what’s a house rule.
This forum needs to be about questions and strategies based on Larry’s rules, wether it’s OOB, Alpha+2/+3/+3.5, or 2nd edition. Those of us that know better shouldn’t be dodging this policy just to get more members involved in their house rule suggestions.
That said… I have decided to remove my thread directing members to my custom table presentation in the customizations forum as it doesn’t belong here.
@Uncrustable:
and to Kion and baron m I apologize. Both had some very insightful posts
Good on ya.
If I understand correctly, there were two threads created by Uncrustable.
One of them was moved, the other deleted.
Some of the posts deleted were incredibly insightful.
The posts made by KionAAA contained one of the most in-depths-analysis and one of the most sophisticated mathematics I’ve seen on this forum.
It is one of my source of sadness… :cry:
He helped me thinks further deeper, and the maths was very original and showed also:
that on a statistical basis comparing units on the same IPCs basis, the more you had units, the more the odds can change. (One thing I just remember, as I write.)
These posts weren’t made in a few seconds.
@Uncrustable:
I agreed with both Kion and you mr Roboto. And respected both of your opinions as they are insightful.
You pointed out a lot of things aswell did Kion,
However both Kion and I agreed (unless I am completely mistaken) on what are the best prices regarding gameplay/balance
And he used the math you speak on to prove it
We did initially disagree on carriers, but he was right to leave them at 16The thread however was hijacked by red harvest
Yes deleting the entire thread was probably rash, I should have just ignored the run away train that the thread was turning into., and to Kion and baron m I apologize. Both had some very insightful posts
Maybe a mod can restore it
Apology accepted Uncrustable,
(I still hope this thread and posts can be saved somehow.)
I should add on behalf of Red Harvest that I open the door wide open by asking questions on the historical basis since his assumptions about Cruisers vs DDs need more proofs.
I doubt that the cost structure was so off the chart that it wasn’t able to follow the historical accuracy.
Red Harvest take willingly the time to search and bring datas asked to support his claims.
As I thought having found a closing argument to pass to another point: Subs cost.
But he comes with an objection: a good one, as I read in a snap shot.
Then, the thread disappear.
Believe me or not,
(some of you, know that, in the past, I moved some posts from one thread to another when asked),
on my next occasion to post something, I had have the intent to open a specific thread on this matter of unit representation, historical accuracy vs cost structure.
I would have ask Red Harvest to move some posts on another thread to follow up the discussion.
I like order and being focus on 1 topic at a time, it wasn’t a problem for me.
It sometimes sucks when threads are pulled. There are also good reasons to do so. The original poster has the right to withdraw his/her topic. I find this perfectly reasonable for many reasons.
I am not specifically citing Uncrustable’s topic but I think all of us who have been here a while have done that for perfectly good reasons.
I didn’t follow the “cost flaw” thread that closely. My commentary is based soley on observation and experience. With that said, I have pulled a thread or two when either the topic has become derailed or when commentary has gone completely away from it’s original intent or topic.
I think we can all try to use our best judgement and manners when posting and I think most forum members do. I however fully support the right of any forum member in good standing to exercise thier discretion as the author of thier original post.
@Imperious:
I am sorry you feel that way about Uncrustable. I hope that you might not blame him, it is possible the truth about this was not his doing. My understanding is a person cannot just remove his threads after a few hours, instead all he can do is EDIT it to a period. Some moderator can remove the thread entirely. Perhaps just wait and not jump to conclusions just yet. Reserve an open mind. I will try to find out what actually happened.
No, he admitted right here in this thread that he did it. Â It wasn’t something inadvertent, or a move by a moderator. Â
It is definitely a “feature” of the forum that needs to be rectified.
@Imperious:
I am sorry you feel that way about Uncrustable. I hope that you might not blame him, it is possible the truth about this was not his doing. My understanding is a person cannot just remove his threads after a few hours, instead all he can do is EDIT it to a period. Some moderator can remove the thread entirely. Perhaps just wait and not jump to conclusions just yet. Reserve an open mind. I will try to find out what actually happened.
As a moderator, are you able to do something to save the posts on the thread if Uncrustable ask you to?
With that said, I have pulled a thread or two when either the topic has become derailed or when commentary has gone completely away from it’s original intent or topic.
Sounds like a really questionable way to react. Â If you think it is derailed wouldn’t the proper course to be to contact a moderator rather than purge the input of others? Â And who is to say that you are actually correct in your assessment of other’s input?
You seem to be high on the idea that the topic host should have the power to delete others’ content athe their basest whim, but with that power should come responsibility: Â abuse the power and the thread creator should have their ability to create new topics disabled permanently. Â That way the forum won’t waste any further efforts in topics created by people who abuse such priviliges.
@Red:
With that said, I have pulled a thread or two when either the topic has become derailed or when commentary has gone completely away from it’s original intent or topic.
Sounds like a really questionable way to react. � If you think it is derailed wouldn’t the proper course to be to contact a moderator rather than purge the input of others? � And who is to say that you are actually correct in your assessment of other’s input?
You seem to be high on the idea that the topic host should have the power to delete others’ content athe their basest whim, but with that power should come responsibility: � abuse the power and the thread creator should have their ability to create new topics disabled permanently. � That way the forum won’t waste any further efforts in topics created by people who abuse such priviliges.
Probably that a moderator can also expurge the “derailing posts” in another threads without vaporizing the threads and all efforts of all benevolent people who post on it earlier and have nothing to do with was going on which “defiled” the threads.
It is a kind of “no one on my playground” and “you don’t play with my toys or I will break it”, instead of a win-win, it becomes a loose-loose for both sides.
The question is asked, does Moderator have the access to remove individual posts and put them in another threads he could create to put them on?
The creator of the Threads will be happy of the sanitization, but the others “derailers” won’t loose what they put on the post.
I really don’t like the idea of vaporizing thread on a mood swing.
As Young Grasshopper said: even the Opening Poster can regret it later.
@Red:
With that said, I have pulled a thread or two when either the topic has become derailed or when commentary has gone completely away from it’s original intent or topic.
Sounds like a really questionable way to react. � If you think it is derailed wouldn’t the proper course to be to contact a moderator rather than purge the input of others? � And who is to say that you are actually correct in your assessment of other’s input?
You seem to be high on the idea that the topic host should have the power to delete others’ content athe their basest whim, but with that power should come responsibility: abuse the power and the thread creator should have their ability to create new topics disabled permanently. That way the forum won’t waste any further efforts in topics created by people who abuse such priviliges.
No point in lecturing someone because he admitted to deleting one of his own topics in the past, if you’ve been here long enough… chances are you’ve done it too. The fact is, the option is there, and if the option exists… than people are going to use it. It may be a stupid feature that needs to be removed, but I’m not gonna stop contributing on other people’s threads just because they have the power to sink my posts at anytime.
Well Baron and Red I’m not the one who deleted the thread. It wasn’t mine to delete. I have deleted threads I created before and for good reason. You’ll also find I’ve left many useless threads up I wish I did delete because they’re dead or they lacked in interest.
All I was trying to say is that at some point you may want to delete a thread. You guys are angry because somone deleted a thread which you guys worked on and the original poster didn’t see things the same way you did. That is not areason for the rest of us to not have the option of erasing a thread.
This has nothing to do with me other than trying to explain why someone may delete a thread. No moderator or admin is going to change the site over a scuffle in a topic and repost selective threads based upon an arguement between a few forum members.
If anything they will ask those members of the forum in a serious dissagreement to get along or leave if the arguement is that serious.
Furthermore all I offered was insight. You want to get angry you should get angry with the person you were arguing with not me.
Lastly, I have said nothing an admin or moderator wouldn’t say or tell you. This is a free forum I personally try to offer help, guidance, experience, and civil discussion with anyone who shares my love of the game. I try my best to be sportsman like a good member of the forum and the Axis & Allies community. If this is such a issue contact DJensen.
Good Day Sirs.
Well Baron and Red I’m not the one who deleted the thread. It wasn’t mine to delete. I have deleted threads I created before and for good reason. You’ll also find I’ve left many useless threads up I wish I did delete because they’re dead or they lacked in interest.
All I was trying to say is that at some point you may want to delete a thread. You guys are angry because somone deleted a thread which you guys worked on and the original poster didn’t see things the same way you did. That is not a reason for the rest of us to not have the option of�  erasing a thread.This has nothing to do with me other than trying to explain why someone may delete a thread. No moderator or admin is going to change the site over a scuffle in a topic and repost selective threads based upon an arguement between a few forum members.
If anything they will ask those members of the forum in a serious dissagreement to get along or leave if the arguement is that serious.
Furthermore all I offered was insight. You want to get angry you should get angry with the person you were arguing with not me.
Lastly,�  I have said nothing an admin or moderator wouldn’t say or tell you. This is a free forum I personally try to offer help, guidance,�  experience, and civil discussion with anyone who shares my love of the game. I try my best to be sportsman like a good member of the forum and the Axis & Allies community. If this is such a issue contact DJensen.
Good Day Sirs.
Is there someone angry about you?
Not for my part, be sure of it.
As you said, you help understand the other POV by explaining things.
Their is two perspectives and developing both as we write these posts.
Thanks for it.
For my part, don’t take anything too personal about this topics.
(In addition, Uncrustable apologies and I made peace with it.)
Some thread can be old or frozen in time, but when I discover this forum I read a lot of interesting ones, no matter they were active or not. It could be really a lost to delete inactive thread.
As I was discussing with Red Harvest working on the topic of this deleted thread somehow. I used to the GOOGLE search to read other discussion about the same historical issue, I didn’t want reinvent the wheel.
Guess what? at least I found something interesting written by Imperious Leader. It was an old post, maybe around 2009.
But I was glad to read it, and curious to find more.
I wasn’t able. Maybe the were deleted, I don’t know. In last resort, I turned directly toward IL if he can help me finding further information. he provides me some help. And I put a quote from the old thread. Then a few hour later, the thread which started my research was erased.
All this to say that, some olds post help me understand many topics before I add my two cents. It is a useful resource all those threads and post, at various degree of course but nevertheless still helpful or entertaining.
See you soon,
Don’t much see this Kion or mr Roboto complaining to much, and like Baron Munchhausen said… he and Uncrustable are good. So I guess it’s a dead issue No?
@Young:
Don’t much see this Kion or mr Roboto complaining to much, and like Baron Munchhausen said… he and Uncrustable are good. So I guess it’s a dead issue No?
I still hope posts can be retrieve somehow.
It was the second time some of my post being erase.
First I was annoyed but didn’t invest a lot of time in it.
The second time was more than annoying.
I don’t wish this to anyone.
I think if there some little improvement to preserve free speech and "the intellectual ownership"within reach why not do them?
@Young:
Don’t much see this Kion or mr Roboto complaining to much, and like Baron Munchhausen said… he and Uncrustable are good. So I guess it’s a dead issue No?
It’s not a dead issue until the forum problem itself is fixed, which is sort of the point of this exercise. And actually Roboto and the Baron complained about the issue with the poster/and or forum as well. Roboto’s conclusion, which I concur with, is not to bother to post anything useful in a thread by Untrustable. Not that I won’t post in them…I just won’t bother to back them with any research and instead point to the user’s history.
While I don’t agree with many of Untrustable’s conclusions, and agree that he should be allowed to delete his own posts (although in several forums I’ve participated in he would not be allowed to do even that!), I see it as a loss to the community that his, Kion’s, Baron’s and others’ posts were permanently lost as the result of a temper tantrum and a weakness in the forum architecture. Regardless of how one feels about the debate, the information within could prove useful to the community. I even made that clear in my disagreement with him, relative cost structure/unit balance depended on what one was optimizing for. (I used historical build patterns as a basis for rejecting the DD/sub spamming conclusion.)
So, no, it isn’t a dead issue until the site owner has addressed it. Did he intend for individuals to delete the posts of others and thereby detract from a community forum? I doubt it. Should those who have their posts summarily deleted, pitch a fit? Heck, YES! That’s how you combat this sort of BS.
MrRoboto never even posted in the thread we are talking about.
Was pretty much just Kion, Baron and I. Untill it got hijacked … At which point it was just Baron and I with the thread pretty much at a close regarding the OP…
I have much respect for MrRobot, KionAA and Baron, and their opinions. All 3 have provided much insight with regards to adjustments in G40.
This should be a dead issue…
I really don’t care anymore… you guys can argue about it till your blue in the face, but just because I regret removing an entire thread in the past, doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the privilege to be able to do so again. Therefore, I don’t agree with taking the power from our hands and giving it to the moderators. My suggestion to you Red Harvest is if you don’t want your posts deleted by the creator of the thread, then don’t post in peoples threads. The more you post in this discussion, the more I believe that this is about your spat with Uncrustable and not about site policies. Besides, the owner of axisandallies.com is to busy to deal with such peaty online fights between members.
@Uncrustable:
MrRoboto never even posted in the thread we are talking about.
Well, we can’t check to find out now can we? Hmmm…why is that…oh yeah, the OP decided to unilaterally delete the posts/work of others.
I don’t recall if MrRoboto participated in the thread and as he said here earlier there is a reason that he might not have done so:
You, Uncrustable, also reacted very unkindly to several people, as was observed by others as well already.
On a personal note, I gave up on arguing with you long ago, since in my opinion you were denying a lot of math theses, that have been proven, without giving evidence of them being wrong.
So all in all, I decided for myself, not to contribute to your threads anymore and if I am asked, I would advice others not to either.
So one might deduce that MrRoboto has not previously observed that “great deal of respect” you are now professing for him.
Uncrustable, you also are the only one so far who seems to think the thread was hijacked–yet another one of those “unilaterally agreed upon” decisions.
The thread was unilaterally my creation.
And you are unilaterally crying like a baby at this point, get over it.
