What do you think of UK being able to build naval units in SZ 2 or 8? Do you think it’s too much of an advantage for the Allies to be able to build up their navy out of reach of the German navy in the Baltic? Does anyone think it’s actually an advantage to the Axis that UK naval units build in SZ 2/8 can’t reach the Baltic in 1 turn?
I think it’s good as it is. The Uk would not be too happy with German fighters sinking every ship it builds… In addition, it would force the US to send all of its ships to one of these sea zones to reinforce the GB fleet and would leave the African option for the US less attractive!
do you think the game is unbalanced in favor of the allies? if it is then do you think if uk couldn’t build in sz 2 or 8 that it would even things out a little more? wouldn’t this be better for he game?
Well, about all the games we played, the Allies won… The few times the Axis won, this was because of capital mistakes or bold strategies. I think you also know that there is a certain strategy for the Allies that almost always is successful.
Yet I believe that prohibiting the UK build in 2&8 would be too much of a disadvantage for the Allies. The consequences are too far-reaching, don’t you think? What would/did you vote? What would you suggest as an alternative?
i voted for advantage for allies and should not be allowed. i haven’t play tested this yet, but i think the allies will still have the edge if you forbid uk naval builds in 2 and 8. the game would just be a little more balanced.
if anyone plays with this modification let me know how it played out.
i would even go so far as to say that the ability of uk to build a navy out of range of germany’s navy is the single worst modification of the revised edition.
Well it would be too devastating if Germany could attack the UK main fleet off of England in the first turn, considering Germany already decimates the Med fleet and possibly Egypt.
I think it’s a blessing and a curse for both sides. While the Baltic navy can’t reach 2 or 8, the same is true of the UK forces - those ships he builds there can’t reach the baltic in one turn. It turns into a question of who tries to move in range first, otherwise you’re both hiding from each other. Of course I guess this tends to bias it in favor of Allies since Germany doesn’t have time to build a navy, so the UK can safely build up until he’s ready, but on the other hand Germany can reactively build a navy if the UK tries to boldly move in from those hiding spots. I don’t think it’s really an issue overall though because the Uk will use an airforce to clean out the Baltic moreso than a navy.
The way the seazones are cut up is favorable to the Axis if the US tries to go in; it takes an extra turn to get into the Baltic from sz1, taking an extra turn for the US to set a shuck system (one from east canada to england, one from england into the baltic).
Well it would be too devastating if Germany could attack the UK main fleet off of England in the first turn, considering Germany already decimates the Med fleet and possibly Egypt.
Was it too devastating for the Allies in the original version? The positive bidding of the Axis implies that it wasn’t too devastating.
I think it’s a blessing and a curse for both sides. While the Baltic navy can’t reach 2 or 8, the same is true of the UK forces - those ships he builds there can’t reach the baltic in one turn. It turns into a question of who tries to move in range first, otherwise you’re both hiding from each other. Of course I guess this tends to bias it in favor of Allies since Germany doesn’t have time to build a navy, so the UK can safely build up until he’s ready, but on the other hand Germany can reactively build a navy if the UK tries to boldly move in from those hiding spots. I don’t think it’s really an issue overall though because the Uk will use an airforce to clean out the Baltic moreso than a navy.
It’s worse than that. UK has the option of moving the fleet he built up in 2 or 8 into SZ 4 and then placing new purchases in SZ 4! Germany doesn’t have that luxury. If Germany moves their fleet from the Baltic they can’t add newly purchased units to the fray. Give Germans the ability to build in SZ 4 as well and then I’ll agree with you.
In a nutshell, building in SZs 2 and 8 gives the Allies too much of an advantage because it gives them many, many more options than the Germans get. I don’t have to tell knowledgable people that the more options a player gets, the more likely he is going to beat a player with fewer options at his disposal.
The way the seazones are cut up is favorable to the Axis if the US tries to go in; it takes an extra turn to get into the Baltic from sz1, taking an extra turn for the US to set a shuck system (one from east canada to england, one from england into the baltic).
Agreed. It does take longer for US to get shucking to work, but the extra SZ between US and UK is independent from the ability of the UK to build out of range of the German fleet. In other words, you can design it so US shucking is just as hard and UK can’t build out of range.
You can try building a factory in Western Europe - that gives you lots of seazones to put a new navy in XD
If germany has to fork over 15 more IPCs for a factory then UK should have do the same to build in SZ 4, but fortunately for them they don’t have to do that.
I looked at the map and I’m confused - UK can’t build in Sz4. We’re talking about the sea zone that the Russian sub starts in, right? Next to karelia and archangel. That doesn’t directly border England where the factory is. Maybe you’re talking about sz2 which is to the left of england?
i don’t have access to the gameboard. all i have access to, and the info i based my post on, is a very pixelated jpeg i got off some website. the sz number between uk, norway and w europe looks a lot like a 4 but like i said it might not be. i wish they had a quality map on this website… there’s an idea! someone get a moderator over here… :wink:
is it a 5? please respond to the question with respect to that sz between uk, norway, and w europe.
The one you’re talking about is sea zone 6 (six) that borders england, norway, and western europe. Sea zone 5 is the Baltic. Sea zone 4 is the one where the Russian sub starts. Sea zone 3 is the one just bordering Norway and England.
Personally I still don’t think it’s any real advantage to either side about sz2 or 8. I have definitely cursed the fact that as Germany I can’t reach the UK’s fleet hiding back there in one turn, but on the other hand his fleet hiding back there can’t reach you in one turn either, giving you a chance to build a carrier and land some of those fighters you started with on it. I actually think it favors Germany later in the game because it gives Germany the time to react by building a navy, instead of constantly having to monitor your navy’s strength relative to the UK if both couldn’t hide from each other.
Your point about building in sea zone 6 being strong is very two-sided. While it does allow you to ‘instantly’ reinforce your navy that you move from sz2 or 8, this also puts the UK navy in full range of fighters in Germany, Norway, and Western Europe.
In reality, did UK had naval industries in the north? If the answer is yes, it must be allowed. If no, it shouldn’t be allowed.
