Would the Allies win without Russia in the real war?

[Guerrilla Guy]

Plus they were always short on rescources! And Russia would always win because there winter defeats anything…

[dezrtfish]

@Guerrilla:

Plus they had BETTER planes if you look at the stat sheets! The ME-109’s were cut up by more Maneuverable Hurricanes.

GG

I’m not sure where you got this information but is is generaly accepted that the Me109 was a better plane than the Hurricane.

http://www.flightjournal.com/planes.asp

[Cecrow]

This is all pretty mindless, but I’ll add two cents:

Assumption: Barbarossa is of no concern to Hitler. Therefore:

• Germany would have put a lot more effort into Operation Sealion, and we would have seen D-Day in reverse on British soil. England could potentially have fallen, or at least London, by December 1941.

• Japan would still have bombed Pearl Harbour and started war with the U.S. Hitler would side with his ally and declare war on the U.S.

• That basically would make it Germany and Japan vs. U.S. I think the U.S. vs Germany would be a quiet stalemate, until Japan was dealt with.

• Then the U.S. would have its bomb; but who knows what Germany might have had. We could have had a three-way cold war on our hands, instead of a two-way. Only I don’t think it would have ended quite as politely, with Hitler’s finger on one of the triggers.

[Guest]

it would be a cold war, excpet with germany, not the soviet union. perhaps communist china would have fought with facist germany

[Thebismarck]

If you want to go all technicall with the spearmen thing then fine! The soldiers would be armed with enough ammo and supplies they would have already be ready for the spearmen and they would be entrenched. (Common sense considering their defending). Back in the days of spearmen they did not take in thought that threnching was good considering they had melee combat. Rendin the trenching useless.

And about the Canadian army… I did not say we could take over the US, but i said that our military is better trained and not better armed. Our generals are some of the top geniouses in the world.(So is our population)Cough,Cough. The war of 1812 is the only war that the Americains lost in History! And whoever Canadian out their thank god for our new Prime Minister! R.I.P Jean Chretien.

[Guest]

@Thebismarck:

The war of 1812 is the only war that the Americains lost in History!

america won the war of 1812

[Thebismarck]

No America lost! Canadians won the most strategic battle but the americains won the more of the least important battle. Common the battle for detroit you guys surrender to like 200 indians againts a fortification of 700 men! And another battle it was 100 canadians againts 1700 americains, and the Canadians made a fort out of tree branches and still repelled the attack. The Americains retreated.

You acn look thrue americain and canadian history and it says Canadians won the war of 1812.

[Drumstix]

Canada won the war of 1812. But I dunno about the better trained stuff. :-?

[Guest]

@Drumstix:

Canada won the war of 1812.

i think we’re talking about different wars of 1812.

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

I would say the war of 1812 was a draw-it’s not like any land changed hands or anything like that.

[Thebismarck]

How the hell could it be a draw when the Aggresure (Americain) had to retreat it’s forces out of Canada. Canadians won fair and square!

[Guest]

Back to topic:
The question is extremely academic, as without the “Lebensraum” in the east (means: Ukraine, Belarus) Hitler would not have started WW2. Thus, the Allies would not have won.

[NthDegree]

Hitler and Stalin were headed for a war with each other and they both knew it.It was inevitable.Hitler said in his goofy book Germany needed “lebensraum” and that was in the East.The Non-Aggression Pact of '39 was just to confound the French and British from negotiating with Stalin.Hitler wanted to invade Poland so he could be right on Russias frontier.The attack on Poland caused the Allies to declare war,upsetting Hitlers actual goal–invading Russia.After defeating France,he massed the armies in Poland,telling the Russians the troops are there to escape British bombers.The rest is history.Hitlers only real goal was war with Russia but it came in a roundabout way so I think the question “Would Germany have won the war without Russia as an enemy?” is pointless.

[dezrtfish]

Falk and Nth:

That’s what I said. I have been making fun of this thread because is ridiculous.

Bismarck:

Check your history, Canada didn’t win because there was no Canada. The war of 1812 was between the English, the French, the US, and assorted “First Nations People”.

[Grigoriy Ivanovitch]

So the real question should be: If Germany was only fighting Russia, would the other Allies have helped either of them?

[dezrtfish]

Perhaps if Poland had given Germany military access, but I think Hitler wanted to occupy Poland as well. If it wasn’t for Poland I don’t think the Allies would have gotten involved and Germany would have replaced Russia in the cold war. My Oppinion of course.

And a much better topic for debate. :wink:

[Zhukov_2003]

uuhhh dezrtfish, germany invading poland is what started the war. any ways back to the topic. You have to look at the industrial side too. Germany needed russias wheat, steal, oil and whatever crap is in there. If germany didnt invade russia they would have died out alot sooner from the hands of the us and uk. I know germany didnt beat russia but they got far enough to secure vital steel and wheat and some oil. Germany would not make it againts the US and Uk in full war time production. Germany barely had a war time production until 1943.

And for tanks like the tiger 1 and 2 forget about them. the germans only made these to counter russian tanks so its safe to say if they didnt fight russia the tigers would be a thought if some dudes head.

lets say germany takes africa and britan, germany is sitting very pretty right now because the US,even with their A-Bomb, did not have a stating post for invasions and no american plane could fly with an atomic bomb all the way to berlin, its impossible!

[dezrtfish]

@Zhukov_2003:

uuhhh dezrtfish, germany invading poland is what started the war.

Right, my comment was in reference to GI’s question as to about Britain and franch iterfearing in a strickly Germany vs. Russia war. For this to happen Germany would have had to avoid war with Poland. :wink:

[Guest]

@Zhukov_2003:

so its safe to say if they didnt fight russia the tigers would be a thought if some dudes head.

what the hell does that mean

[Thebismarck]

How long do you think it would take before the Germans commenced (attack land) Operation Sealion? I guess it depends how long it would take to take over Europe (except Poland) and Norway/Finland. I guess from the point they took over Norway/Finland, a year or so. Considering they still had to find out a good amphibious tanks.