Purrchase: 1x Aircraft Carrier, 2x Transports
Declare War on Soviet Union
Strange. A sea lion buy with a G1 DOW?
@Cow:
Lately I been doing 2 bomber 1 sub buy, been having high success rates. The threat of bombing uk factory and then doing a sea lion keeps UK honest. Can blast Egypt with the air, can bomb Russians, can sink Gibraltar airbase and medit fleet thing that some players do. Sometimes depending on bid, italy can have a hard time sinking UK after losing his battleship, Germany can one shot it for minimum loss.
The two bomber 1 sub buy is extremely flexible because of this it is an optimal buy.
I’ve been thinking some more about this idea. There is absolutely merit in an extra bomber for both Sea Lion and Barbarossa but the 4th bomber is not so useful for Barbarossa - in Sea Lion it hits the airbase. Perhaps the buy should be 1bomber 1sub 3art. That allows leaving a few more tanks on the Continent in a sea lion game too.
What do you think of
G1 buy: 1 bomber, 1-3 subs (or 1 sub, 1 destroyer, etc)…
Take Southern Europe over Normandy
Two subs go after the British Cruiser in 91 (so it can’t be used against Italy even though this weakens the German attack on the Channel)
The goal is for 3-4 German subs to convoy England, maybe send one to Canada. Even if you’re not going to Sea Lion, you can take 6-8 a turn and bomb London. If he doesn’t fix it, I use 2 bombers on Russian factories G4.
G2 buy includes a carrier, destroyer or sub, and a transport for Southern Europe, where Italy parked its fleet at the end of its turn, taking out the French navy
Italy then has its transport(s) to take Gibraltor and/or Morroco on I2. And Germany’s ships can be back in England on G4, or stay and help in the Med. Or, hell, if the U.S. is careless, use Gibraltor’s naval base to convoy or attack the U.S. (That may involve assets from the North Sea. Never hold it, but you get their money and turn a major into a minor)
The subs in SZ91 become a target for the surviving DD UK1 and you can’t use them as fodder in SZ110 which means you have to lose planes. I’ve tried that part and I don’t really think it’s a good idea.
Convoying the UK is never a bad idea.
It is annoying for the UK player and he has to react sooner or later.
I played this way this morning and here is some of how it played out:
G1 buy was a bomber and two subs, holding 6 for the next round.
Attacks were typical G1 except:
hitting Southern Europe instead of Normandy (need the factory on the Med for G2)
two subs hit the British cruiser in seazone 91 (to help Italian fleet)
1 sub to 106 (can only reach 106 or 109, and 109 can scramble 1-4 fighters)
German fighter lands in Italy for Taranto defense.
Unfortunately, the north sea attack in SZ111 went unbelievably poorly and his battleship escaped (these were the only planes I lost, btw. He scrambled Scotland into 111 and the French fighter to the channel), otherwise Britain would have lost everything in the Med and Atlantic except for its two destroyers and two transports on Round 1.
J1 was a very successful all out attack on 12 Russian troops in Amur, and usual China attacks.
Italy’s destroyer/transport in SZ 96 survived because Britain only had one fighter to attack it (no Brit cruiser thanks to two subs), and Italy’s fleet attacked the French in SZ 93, joining the German carrier/fighter that is about to be built. Sank the Brit Cruiser left over from Taranto. OR, not having the British cruiser over Malta means Italy could attack the British planes on Malta, but you end up losing your fleet, like usual.
–—
G2 ($68 avail) Buy Carrier, Transport, sub (I now wish it had been two transports) for Southern Europe; bombers for Germany
G takes Normandy and original transport takes Gibraltor (british bomber on Malta can hit it, but would then be destroyed in N. Africa)
J2 returns to typical pattern for China, Calcutta, money islands, but Amur force starts rolling up Eastern Russia ($5 easy)
I2 ($17 avail) Greece, Morocco, Algeria, etc, as able
2nd transport took Trans-Jordan to seal the canal from British ships
Italy now gets $10-15 in bonuses (no enemy ships, holds 3 out of 4 Greece/Gibraltor/Morrocco; and all of Northern Africa)
Resulting situation:
Germans were now convoying England, max bombed its factory, and had bombers ready to hit both minor Russian factories on G4.
Italy is very relevant, and supported by a modest German fleet. Italy easily took Cairo I3 (I actually sent all the German fighters down, too, to keep it) and has a factory in Iraq, threatening Africa, Calcutta, and/or Southern Russia.
J4 will include bombers hitting Moscow from China though destroying the Russians on J1 did slow down taking the money islands and the Phillipines, though the income will even out with the additional Russian income.
The biggest bonus is how much this affected the Russians, who lost income and are threatened on 3 fronts by all 3 Axis, and U.S. being forced to help Britain.
update: this game played out as a dominating win for the Axis. By turn 5 and 6, Japan was at 80 ipc (base), Germany was in 51 (base), and Italy was 24 with all N.O.s (so about 40ipc total). When the Allies surrendered, All 3 Axis had a Russian minor factory and were about to attack Moscow. India was alive but neutered. Same with London.
All sounds like strong Axis play, as you will discover over many playouts, the Axis have an easier road not just because of inherent imbalance in the setup and game but just because of their varied ways to win, turn order advantage, starting unit flexibility and more. In order to give the Axis a bunch of choices in this version, they are a bit too powerful and most players mod the game or use the bid, or both.
Since building Germany fleet is not optimal, and the med is a trap once the Allies hold SZ 91 and Egypt in force, but you still won, pinched UK, pressured Moscow, etc., you may want to stick the stronger players on the Allied team, allow losers to choose team player assignments and power assignments, or use the bid, tweak the setup, or play a mod.
Do any of you ever build a destroyer on turn 1 to hit the starting Russian submarines? Is it worth it to stop Norway convoy and deny an objective? Or are those 8 ipcs better spent on mech and artillery?
Yes, but I’m not convinced that it’s worth it G1. If you G3 DOW you can buy it turn two and use the IPCs for artillery which can reach Bryansk G5 but can’t if bought G2. The major thing a ship build G1 allows is defending SZ112 UK1, especially if you strafe SZ111. I usually build a sub for the extra hit though. That also allows blocking the USSR NO indefinitely whereas a DD can be taken out by UK planes.
2 bomber 1 sub could always turn into 1 bomber dd sub Arty.
Sea lion threat is there to keep up honest with their first buy
Yes, but I’m not convinced that it’s worth it G1. If you G3 DOW you can buy it turn two and use the IPCs for artillery which can reach Bryansk G5 but can’t if bought G2. The major thing a ship build G1 allows is defending SZ112 UK1, especially if you strafe SZ111. I usually build a sub for the extra hit though. That also allows blocking the USSR NO indefinitely whereas a DD can be taken out by UK planes.
If the goal is Bryansk on G5 is G3 the optimal turn to DOW? The first reason I think it would be is that all of your fast movers bought turn 2 and artillery turn 1 can attack together. I have heard other people however say that G3 is too late because Russia will be able to defend better and that the purchases are really telegraphing what you are going to do letting England relax. Which of the 3 first turns do you think are best when paired with a J1, assuming the plan is Barbarossa instead of Sea Lion?
I’m not really sure that a J1 changes the Europe war, except in the sense that Sea Lion is weakened because USA can respond better.
G3 DOW Opener
G1 purchase:
Combat move:
SZ 111:
SZ 110:
SZ 106:
France:
Normandy:
Yugoslavia:
Noncombat move:
Finland:
3 infantry (norway)
Bulgaria:
1 infantry (romania)
SZ 113:
1 cruiser (114)
1 transport (114)
Poland:
All units in Germany to Poland
Germany:
2 infantry (denmark) —> by transport
Planes to holland and western germany
Placements: all in Germany
Collect 70 IPCs
This opener:
Expands German income (taking Yugoslavia instead of strafing it)
Clears British Home fleet
Provides German opportunity to attack Greece
Provides additional defense in tobruk on UK1
Leaves Sea Lion open with a transport buy G2
Provides Italy with opportunities to grow their income with Southern France and does not divert Tank in Albania from heading East.
Italians can potentially take Alexandria on I1, reinforced by German air on G2, and capture Egypt I3 after a G3 airstrike.
The plan is a slow concentrated push using the infantry and artillery available early to stack Eastern Poland G3 and move to Bryansk on G5 for a G6 Moscow. Mech and Armor arriving from France and purchased on G2 and G3 can keep up with the stack.
A G2 purchase of 70 IPCs could look like:
The fighter buy replaces the fighter you send to Africa on G1 and I think it is important to buy aircraft and submarines with Germany to delay allied landings. The sub also disrupts the Russian NO for R3. The artillery in France can start a stack to counterattack any coastal landings.
I’ve had 3 wins against different players the past few weeks following this general plan. It becomes very dangerous for Russia to counterattack because you have a larger stack than them, more aircraft, Italian can-openers, and any Russian units that stay too far west can be cut off from having a chance to reinforce Moscow. The overwhelming ground force that you have will force the Russian player to retreat and reduces the number of small infantry casualties you would otherwise suffer. Your air force also has the flexibility to hit Egypt or assist in Russia as long as you buy 1 plane a turn to keep up with your expansion. You are still hitting Moscow G6.
I2 ($17 avail) Greece, Morocco, Algeria, etc, as able
2nd transport took Trans-Jordan to seal the canal from British ships
Italy now gets $10-15 in bonuses (no enemy ships, holds 3 out of 4 Greece/Gibraltor/Morrocco; and all of Northern Africa)
How did you get all of N. Africa on turn 2? Did Taranto not happen after all? Did Italy start I2 with 2 transports? How did Italy or Germany capture Morocco for instance?
I2 ($17 avail) Greece, Morocco, Algeria, etc, as able
2nd transport took Trans-Jordan to seal the canal from British ships
Italy now gets $10-15 in bonuses (no enemy ships, holds 3 out of 4 Greece/Gibraltor/Morrocco; and all of Northern Africa)How did you get all of N. Africa on turn 2? Did Taranto not happen after all? Did Italy start I2 with 2 transports? How did Italy or Germany capture Morocco for instance?
Its been a while, but it looks like Italy had 2 transports left, because the UK attack on their ships at Malta failed. That means Italy can hit Tunisia on I1, and Greece, Algeria, and Morocco on I2, and probably also Alexandria.
Often I’ll wait until I3 to do that because I don’t want to lose Italian transports, so I2 would usually end off coast of S. France with the other ships, then move on I3, but I don’t see that in my notes here, so maybe I sold out for the NO bonus. Only the one UK bomber would be able to hit SZ92, so if I had a warship available…
G3 DOW Opener
G1 purchase:
- 6 artillery
- 2 infantry
Combat move:
SZ 111:
- 2 submarines (118 & 124)
- 1 fighter (norway)
- 1 tactical (western germany)
- 2 bomber (germany)
SZ 110:
- 2 submarines (103 & 108)
- 3 fighter (holland & western germany)
- 3 tactical (western germany & germany)
- 1 battleship (113)
SZ 106:
- 1 submarine (117)
France:
- 7 infantry (holland & western germany)
- 3 artillery (holland & western germany)
- 1 mech (western germany)
- 1 tactical (poland)
- 5 tank (holland & greater southern germany)
Normandy:
- 3 mech (western germany)
- 1 tank (holland)
Yugoslavia:
- 9 infantry (greater southern germany & slovakia & romania)
- 2 artillery (greater southern germany)
- 3 tank (poland & slovakia & romania)
- 1 fighter (slovakia) –----------------------------> land in tobruk
Noncombat move:
Finland:
3 infantry (norway)Bulgaria:
1 infantry (romania)SZ 113:
1 cruiser (114)
1 transport (114)Poland:
All units in Germany to PolandGermany:
2 infantry (denmark) —> by transportPlanes to holland and western germany
Placements: all in Germany
Collect 70 IPCs
This opener:
Expands German income (taking Yugoslavia instead of strafing it)
Clears British Home fleet
Provides German opportunity to attack Greece
Provides additional defense in tobruk on UK1
Leaves Sea Lion open with a transport buy G2
Provides Italy with opportunities to grow their income with Southern France and does not divert Tank in Albania from heading East.Italians can potentially take Alexandria on I1, reinforced by German air on G2, and capture Egypt I3 after a G3 airstrike.
The plan is a slow concentrated push using the infantry and artillery available early to stack Eastern Poland G3 and move to Bryansk on G5 for a G6 Moscow. Mech and Armor arriving from France and purchased on G2 and G3 can keep up with the stack.
A G2 purchase of 70 IPCs could look like:
- 5 tank (germany)
- 5 mech (germany)
- 1 fighter (western germany)
- 1 sub (112 or 113)
- 1 artillery (france)
The fighter buy replaces the fighter you send to Africa on G1 and I think it is important to buy aircraft and submarines with Germany to delay allied landings. The sub also disrupts the Russian NO for R3. The artillery in France can start a stack to counterattack any coastal landings.
I’ve had 3 wins against different players the past few weeks following this general plan. It becomes very dangerous for Russia to counterattack because you have a larger stack than them, more aircraft, Italian can-openers, and any Russian units that stay too far west can be cut off from having a chance to reinforce Moscow. The overwhelming ground force that you have will force the Russian player to retreat and reduces the number of small infantry casualties you would otherwise suffer. Your air force also has the flexibility to hit Egypt or assist in Russia as long as you buy 1 plane a turn to keep up with your expansion. You are still hitting Moscow G6.
Great opener!
France:
- 7 infantry (holland & western germany)
- 3 artillery (holland & western germany)
- 1 mech (western germany)
- 1 tactical (poland)
- 5 tank (holland & greater southern germany)
Why risking to lose a tactical to the AA in France? I personally wouldn’t take that risk and it’s not needed if you bring in everything you can over land. (I think there are more mechs to bring in right?)
@Afrikakorps Your plan is the nuts and bolts of mine, but you can keep an option open for a Turn 5 crash on Russia proper.
If you plan right, the new game seems lent to anti-Russia, and less UK than the last game.
@Cow is there a Russia playbook?
Yes. Don’t screw up and take as long to die as possible. There are only a few ways to accomplish these goals.
