There is only one movement phase in this game (before combat), so movement of units by the same power after combat is not possible in any case.
Preview 1: Setup & The Political Situation
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We’re talking about what America can do before it goes to war. You’ve heard of the Monroe doctrine? Let America do want it likes in the western hemisphere (invade Mexico, Haiti etc) but it should not be permitted across the Atlantic. For local wars, America did not need, and had no intention of acquiring, a large modern army.
The US military situation in April 1917 was exactly the same as in August 1914, because they were not planning for, and had no intention of entering, a major war. The idea that they would actual enter a war zone before declaring war is so insane that it warps us into a parallel universe, invented for the sole purpose of appeasing redneck in-breds who can’t wait for 4 turns for America to get involved.If America spent 1914-17 gearing up for war, expanding its war economy, and skulking off the coast of France with transports fully laded with tanks, artillery and planes, then I might just buy it. But it didn’t and I don’t.
If the CPs attacked Switzerland in the war then I might just buy it. But they didn’t and I don’t.
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I agree with you that the USA shouldn’t be sending troops/ships to Europe or Africa before they were at war, but this is a ahistorical board game based very loosely on a historical war (you’d agree with that).
So who’s to say that America’s leadership didn’t initiate a military buildup in 1914? If Teddy Roosevelt had won in 1912 we may have done so.
How is that very different than the Kaiser advocating for his version of Sealion in this board game?
This is maybe not a fair comparison, but we are changing strategies of historical actors in an ahistorical game.
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I want a game that starts in the historical August 1914, not an alternative universe. What happens after that can deviate from history if the players make different military decisions from the politicians of the time, or have bad luck with the dice.
Teddy Roosevelt didn’t win in 1912, so that has no part to play. By all means have an American election in 1916, and if Hughes wins then war is declared immediately. But the very fact that Wilson won on an anti-war ticket demonstrates that America was not interested in war until 1917.
Of course if Germany attacks American interests earlier than it in fact did, then this should provoke an earlier US entry.
But altering history to the extent of completely reversing American foreign policy purely for game play purposes is going too far.
The effort of mobilizing for war put a HUGE strain on a country’s economy; the idea that America would do this without actually being at war, or intending to be at war, is absurd.
I agree with you that the USA shouldn’t be sending troops/ships to Europe or Africa before they were at war, but this is a ahistorical board game based very loosely on a historical war (you’d agree with that).
So who’s to say that America’s leadership didn’t initiate a military buildup in 1914? If Teddy Roosevelt had won in 1912 we may have done so.
How is that very different than the Kaiser advocating for his version of Sealion in this board game?
This is maybe not a fair comparison, but we are changing strategies of historical actors in an ahistorical game.
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Lets start the chant together Flash, and keep our boys over here! Or in your case keep them over there I guess lol
HELL NO WE WON’T GO, HELL NO WE WON’T GO, HELL NO WE WON’T GO……
Well at least until the 4th tun LOL
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I want a game that starts in the historical August 1914, not an alternative universe. What happens after that can deviate from history if the players make different military decisions from the politicians of the time, or have bad luck with the dice.
I thought that’s exactly what this was. The game already opens in 1914, so the actions of the players are ready to change history, including having a militarized US.
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Wilson would have been lynched if he’d sent the boys over there before it’d even started over there.
As I’ve said all along, if you want America active at the start, then make the game Axis and Allies 1917.
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Wilson would have been lynched if he’d sent the boys over there before it’d even started over there.
Since America isn’t one of the first countries to play, it does in fact actually start over there.
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As far as Americans are concerned it doesn’t get started 'till THEY declare war.
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As far as Americans are concerned it doesn’t get started 'till THEY declare war.
So given a hypothetical timeline where America is allowed to diverge from its historical outcome starting in 1914, why can’t they stock up an army, then declare war later? It’s good enough for the Europeans.
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@Eggman:
As far as Americans are concerned it doesn’t get started 'till THEY declare war.
So given a hypothetical timeline where America is allowed to diverge from its historical outcome starting in 1914, why can’t they stock up an army, then declare war later? It’s good enough for the Europeans.
Ummm, that’s exactly it. They can stock up an army (20 IPCs per turn), DOW later, then move that army across the pond to fight!
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This is a WAR game. Decisions should be about how to wage war, not completely diverge from the entire political philosophy of the country.
If America can do this, you may as well make the game a free-for-all with no political alliances, and everyone allowed to attack anyone they please.
I really think the Russia/America controlled by one player idea is a more elegant solution. How many groups have 8 players anyway?
Perhaps Larry, Curly and Mo decided that there needed to be a set American intervention to give the game an urgency - i.e. the CP have to win before the Yanks are over there in large numbers.
I will probably house rule that America gets a bigger starting navy & a bigger base income, but does not have a turn until drawn into the war by the actions of the European belligerents.
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100% agree the US shouldn’t be able to move units onto European or African territories until:
- US is attacked.
- Germany declares sub warfare in the Atlantic (US citizens would be involved).
- Paris or London are captured or contested by CP (might have brought about a change in policy)
- USA delivers a DOW on the turn it is allowed to (4th turn), then all restrictions are lifted.
At this point I guess I would be ok with no restrictions on where the US ships and transports could go, but even that should be looked at. I hope this was just missed in the rule book, or was omitted by mistake and will be corrected (it wouldn’t be the first time). We will know for sure when Larry walks us through the US turn.
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@WILD:
100% agree the US shouldn’t be able to move units onto European or African territories until…
That’s a slightly different twist than the other suggestion of saying they can’t do anything at all, which feels a bit draconian.
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It looks like somebody copied and pasted “6 infantry, 2 artillery” too many times.
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It looks like somebody copied and pasted “6 infantry, 2 artillery” too many times.
Funny and true. That said, I can see myself getting sucked into this one despite some surface problems.
Yrs.,
R. -
It looks like somebody copied and pasted “6 infantry, 2 artillery” too many times.
I was thinking the same thing, but this is what happens when you got only 3 land units and didn’t get WOTC to spend more money on rail guns, armored cars, and stormtroopers.
That’s why i maintain the 2nd printing WILL HAVE new sculpt types because WOTC NEVER MAKES GAMES THEY CAN’T REHASH FROM PREVIOUS INVESTMENTS. This game can’t be a “one off” product. It must be a chain in a new line of games.
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Well, to be fair, if you guys could have just beat Fritz on your own, there’d be no reason for us to have to cross the Atlantic in the first place…. :evil:
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I’d be more interested in having decent sized planes and artillery than new unit types. And a bigger board. And a rulebook that doesn’t involve too much guesswork to determine what the rules actually are.
@Imperious:
This is what happens when you got only 3 land units and didn’t get WOTC to spend more money on rail guns, armored cars, and stormtroopers.
That’s why i maintain the 2nd printing WILL HAVE�  new sculpt types because WOTC NEVER MAKES GAMES THEY CAN’T REHASH FROM PREVIOUS INVESTMENTS. This game can’t be a “one off” product. It must be a chain in a new line of games.
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Maybe it’s just a lot easier to wait and see what the problems are than to try to anticipate problems in the first place.
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Those are just the problems we already know about.
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