Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)

[Witt]

Hi Cenurio. It is only for the Territories that begin the game pro Axis(the ones printed on the map).

[Centurio]

Thxs Wittmann for the fast answer!  Now i understand it :-D

[captainwalker]

I’ve got a game going on where the US has a fleet w/ 4 transports in 110. The US also has ehough grouind units in UK to load them on their next turn. I’m playing the axis and, if Germany builds a dd in 110 on their next turn, will making 110 a hostile sea zone prevent the US from loading their transports in the combat phase of their turn?

[gamerman01]

Yes it will prevent USA from loading transports during the combat movement phase of their turn IN Z110 ONLY.  You just have to be sure that Russia can’t attack the destroyer.

Also beware that the transports could go to an open 109 and pick up the ground units there, and move up to 2 more spaces before unloading

[captainwalker]

Thanks for the fast reply Gamerman!
I don’t care if they go to 109…they can’t get to Norway going that route and that’s where I need to keep them from landing. If they go to Normandy/Holland it’s not a bfd because Germany has prepared for those landings.
But…since you’ve brought the 109 possibility to my attention… I’ll think I’ll move a dd to 109 and those US guys will just have to sit out the combat phase!
That will really frustrate my opponent!
Thanks again!

[gamerman01]

You bet - I like to be helpful

Making sure you understand -
The German DD forces USA ships to leave during the combat movement phase or stay and fight.  This means that the transports in 110 will be utterly unable to transport any units in the noncombat phase.

[Seador]

I don’t like calling a rule question a conflicting rule, so instead I’m going to ask which rule to follow in the following situation.  This question revolves around the following two rules:
retreat rule - condition B “Move all attacking land and sea units in that combat that are on the battle strip to a single adjacent friendly
space from which at least 1 of the attacking land or sea units moved. In the case of sea units, that space must have been friendly at the start of the turn. All such units must retreat together to the same territory or sea zone, regardless of where they came from.” (Europe pg 20)

and the Canal rule, “If your side (but not necessarily your power) controlled a canal or narrow strait at the start of your turn, you may move sea units through it” + “Exception: Submarines of any power may pass through the Strait of Gibraltar regardless of which power controls it.” (Europe pg 9)

German fleet attacks Allied fleet based in 91.  They bring a surface fleet from West Germany, plus a sub fleet from the Med.  z92 is friendly, eliminating that requirement of Retreat.

Does the retreat rule, “All such units must retreat together to the same territory or sea zone, regardless of where they came from” override the Canal rule, “If your side … controlled a canal or narrow strait at the start of your turn, you may move sea units through it” and allow a power to slingshot through Gibraltar?

[knp7765]

No. Even in retreats, you still have to follow the canals/straights rule. In this case, ALL German ships, including the subs from the Med, would have to retreat together to a sea zone that any of the German surface fleet came from out in the Atlantic (I’m guessing SZ 104).
You can’t use this retreat rule to slip a German fleet into the Med past an Allied controlled Gibraltar. However, this would be a good way to get the German subs out of the Med into the Atlantic if that were your aim.

[Seador]

I’m inclined to agree with your interpretation, the rule book is generally restricted unless proscribed rather than permissive unless denyed.

As for your second comment:  of course not!  I expect to win the battle.

[gamerman01]

Great question, PG, and I recall it has been asked and answered by Krieghund before.  However, it was a long time ago so may be difficult to find.

I am actually not sure of the official answer off the top of my head.  I will try a search.
When you can’t figure out a rule for sure from the rule book, it’s best to just ask, as you have  :-)

[gamerman01]

@Krieghund:

Surface ships may not move through the Strait of Gibraltar unless Gibraltar was controlled by a friendly power at the beginning of the turn.  Retreating is a type of movement, therefore surface ships may not retreat through the Strait of Gibraltar unless Gibraltar was controlled by a friendly power at the beginning of the turn.  Since all sea units must retreat together, if there are attacking surface ships remaining in the battle any subs forfeit the ability to retreat throught the strait.

OK, that wasn’t hard…  :-)
Love the search function - pity everyone doesn’t have it for some unknown reason

Boy, was I right about “a long time ago”  :wink:  More than 3 years!
Great question, PGMatt

[Jennifer]

Page 20 of 44 of the PDF:

Before the general sea battle takes place, both attacking and defending submarines can choose to either make a Surprise Strike die roll or submerge.

Attacking or defending submarines that choose to submerge are immediately removed from the battle strip and returned to the game board in the contested sea zone, removing them from the remaining battle sequences.

The way I read it, you can choose to submerge your submarines after removing defender casualties from the battle strip, but before making a decision on attack or retreat.

This way, your surface ships will be in a different sea zone from your submarines.  The downside is that your submarines are immediately out of the battle, therefore they don’t get to step 6 and cannot retreat themselves.  So you wouldn’t be able to retreat to two different sea zones (which is expressly prevented by the rules as pointed out above.)  But you COULD if you wanted, split the fleet.  I guess if you had submarines in a convoy zone it might matter, but I doubt there’d be a huge need to do this.

[Krieghund]

@Cmdr:

The way I read it, you can choose to submerge your submarines after removing defender casualties from the battle strip, but before making a decision on attack or retreat.

It doesn’t work that way.  Subs submerge at the beginning of the combat round, in step 2, before any dice are rolled.  In order the rest of the fleet to retreat and leave the subs behind, the subs would need to submerge and sit out the entire last round of combat.

[Jennifer]

@Krieghund:

@Cmdr:

The way I read it, you can choose to submerge your submarines after removing defender casualties from the battle strip, but before making a decision on attack or retreat.

It doesn’t work that way.  Subs submerge at the beginning of the combat round, in step 2, before any dice are rolled.  In order the rest of the fleet to retreat and leave the subs behind, the subs would need to submerge and sit out the entire last round of combat.

Worded funny then.  The way it is written implies submarines can choose to stay and fight or submerge at anytime before the general sea battle takes place (the general sea battle being from the time attacking dice are rolled to the time casualties are removed or steps 3 through 5.)

Good to get it cleared up.

[Gigeneral]

In second edition Pacific rulebook, it says that defending subs get a surprise strike if no attacking destroyers are present. Is this correct, and did it change from the first edition? Also if correct, are attacking casualties removed before they can attack?

Can an escorting destroyer ignore an enemy sub in a sea zone where the escorted transport wants to perform an amphibious assault?

Also for an amphibious assault, can an aircraft carrier act as an escort to avoid battle with an enemy sub?

[gamerman01]

@Gigeneral:

In second edition Pacific rulebook, it says that defending subs get a surprise strike if no attacking destroyers are present. Is this correct

Yes, this is correct

, and did it change from the first edition?

No, that was not a change from 1st edition

Also if correct, are attacking casualties removed before they can attack?

YES, they are.

Can an escorting destroyer ignore an enemy sub in a sea zone where the escorted transport wants to perform an amphibious assault?

YES there is no requirement to attack.  Note that a submarine is adequate to escort as well.  Watch out for scrambling, which would force combat.

Also for an amphibious assault, can an aircraft carrier act as an escort to avoid battle with an enemy sub?

Yes.  Any warship, even a carrier with no attack value

[captainwalker]

Is flying over the Turkish Straits considered to be flying over a neutral country?

[Krieghund]

Air units can pass freely between sea zones 99 and 100 regardless of Turkey’s status.

[captainwalker]

Thanks for the quick respnse Krieghund!

[Jennifer]

@Gamerman01:

Also for an amphibious assault, can an aircraft carrier act as an escort to avoid battle with an enemy sub?

Yes.  Any warship, even a carrier with no attack value

note, however, that again, you need to watch out for scrambles.  The carrier might neuter the defending submarine forcing it to allow the convoy through, but it has no attack value so a scramble will still turn back and possibly sink the carrier and convoy.

In these cases, I find destroyers to be nice.  Of course, I have not actually PLAYED the game in the last 4-6 weeks….I miss my home gaming group (sob.) lol