Tokyo express does not need a marine. 1 infantry on Japanese destroyers.
Face-to-Face Tournament Rules
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I just wanted to get the conversation started regarding face-to-face tournament rules. I would prefer to start the conversation with those who have run or played in face-to-face tournaments to set the tone, from experience about what does and does not work. I’m sure it will depend on the game version as well.
Since it has been over 5 years since I’ve played in a tournament, I’ll refrain from comments until I’ve either playtested suggestions or have returned from GenCon 2012.
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Can someone post links here to all the current tournament rules, for AA50, 41, 42 first edition?
I just had a brainwave for an epic solution to the whole “who’s winning”, and “when/how should a winner be declared at time”, which would make things incredibly interesting… :P
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Anniversary Edition Tournament/Game Rules
In this tournament, two-player teams compete in one or more qualifying rounds, after which the top 8 teams advance to single elimination (SE) play.
There is no maximum number of players for each qualifying round just as long as there is an even number of players for each game, so GEN ERICS are
welcome. Each team must bring a copy of the game. Basic tournament rules will be addressed before play begins. The 8 teams who won their
games with the highest Victory City totals during the qualifying rounds will advance to SE play on Saturday (for Tie Breakers, see Victory Conditions
below.)
• All games will have a time limit of 5 hours and 45 minutes. (see END TIME rules for how to end games within time frame allotted.)
• Game play is based on the AA50 Rulebook with the errata (see below) for clarifications.
• National Objectives/Bonus Income will NOT be used for this event.
• Technology will NOT be used for this event.
• The 1942 scenario will be used at set up.
• The bidding system used will be an OPEN bid for sides (see below).
• Fighter Escorts and Interceptors will be used for Bombing Raids as part of the Official Errata/Rule Clarifications. (see below)
Victory Conditions:
1. The side controlling the most Victory Cities (VC) at the end of regulation play wins (must be held at the end of the US turn).
2. If both sides own the same number of VC’s (i.e. 9 to 9);the side with the highest total IPC value of controlled countries wins. Axis win IPC
ties.
3. China is NOT included in the starting IPC total for the Allies. These territories will count as 1 IPC value for each one controlled by the AXIS
ONLY. The game starts with a (non-Chinese) IPC value of Allies 93 vs. Axis 78. At the end of regulation play, first calculate the non-Chinese
IPC total for each side then add 1 IPC to the Axis total for each Chinese territory they control. (Ex: the game ends with an IPC value count
without Chinese territories of 88 Allies vs. 83 Allies but the Axis control 5 Chinese territories. The final count would be 88 vs. 88. THE AXIS
WIN!
4. There will be NO IPC Bonuses (as in Revised/1942) used to determine the final Victory Conditions for games.
Bidding:
The actual bid will be for a number of IPC’s that the one side will grant, from the bank, to the other before the start of the game. This number of IPC’s
may be used to buy game pieces only! You may not save the money. Once the bid number has been determined, the side receiving the bid will make
their purchase and place all bid pieces on the game board in territories/sea zones they occupy at the start of the game. You may NOT mix the bid units
purchased for one country with units of an allied country. Also, units may not be placed in Neutral or Chinese Territories.
To determine who starts the bidding, both sides roll a die. The winner, the higher number, chooses whether to start the bidding or defer. Whoever
starts the bid, must announce what side they wish to play (Axis or Allies) and issue a positive bid (minimum 1 IPC). If your opponent takes the bid
at 1 IPC then obviously, they wanted to play the other side and the 1 IPC is lost. If they choose to increase the bid, then the bidding will continue until
one side accepts the bid IPC value and buys units accordingly.
(Example of Bidding:) Team A vs. Team B: Team A wins the coin toss and elects to defer their bid. Team B starts the bidding and announces that
they would like to be the Allies, hence, giving money to the Axis. They start the bid at “5” IPC’s; next, Team A bids “7”; Team B bids “8”; Team A stops
the bidding at “8” and takes the Axis. Team A now has 8 imaginary IPC’s to purchase units and place them on the game board in countries, which are
currently occupied, by allied, LIKE units before play. In the above scenario, that would be the Axis. After placement of these units, the game then starts
as usual. Remember any bid money left over is gone…
Official Errata/Rule Clarification:
• If China controls an odd number of territories at the beginning of its turn; the number of infantry it receives is rounded down. (1 Chinese Territory
equals no new infantry for that turn.)
• New Chinese units may not be placed in a territory that already contains three or more Chinese units (including the Flying Tigers fighter) .
• The Chinese fighter (the Flying Tigers) can NOT attack units in territories or sea zones outside China. It can NOT leave China, even temporarily.
• Transports do NOT roll combat dice. As a result, they will never hit anything. They must rely on combat units for protection.
• Transports that retreat from a sea battle with other ships may NOT unload during the non-combat phase of a turn.
ï‚· Fighter Escorts and Interceptors. Fighters can participate in strategic bombing raids. Attacking fighters may escort and protect the bombers, and
they can originate from any territory, range permitting. Any or all defending fighters based in a territory that is strategically bombed can participate in
the defense as well. (see AA Clarification Sheet for more details)
END TIME RULE: (See End Time Rule Handout) this is how game will end within the time constraints of the event. -
1942 (2ND EDITION) TOURNAMENT RULES
This is a 4 round Single Elimination (SE) tournament for one or two player teams. The event will start Saturday morning and run all day on Saturday with
the finals being on Sunday morning. Time (TBD).
• All games have a time limit of 3 hours and 45 minutes. (See END TIME rules handout for details not part of this page)
• Tournament play is based on 1942 2nd Edition Rulebook/Game Board & Errata by Larry Harris.
• The Bidding System used will be an OPEN bid for sides. (See below for details on Bidding)
Victory Conditions:
1. If your side controls 3 or more total Victory Cities than it started with (9 for the Axis & 10 for the Allies) at the end of a complete round of
play (after the completion of the US turn) you win the war.
2. If neither side has obtained the 3+ VC’s within the time frame allotted, an IPC Victory with bonuses for VC’s at the end of regulation time must be
calculated to determine the winner. The Axis start with (171) vs. the Allies (192) total IPC’s.
Total all the territories one side is up & down w/ victory point bonuses below for the final IPC value. The side with the greater IPC value…WINS!
The Axis needs to capture a min. of 11 IPC’s w/bonuses to win. Ex:(the Axis start the game with 71 IPC’s +100 bonus = 171. They gain 15 IPC’s
and lose 4 total for the game. (171 +15- 4(11)=182) The Axis Win!
Victory City Bonuses:
Each city has an IPC value associated with it. The amount of IPC bonus points is added to the original IPC total. (Example:) Washington has a starting IPC
value of 12. It has a 20 IPC bonus as noted below, giving it a total IPC value of 32: (12+20=32) Listed below are the bonuses for each Victory City (VC):
Washinton-20; Moscow-20; Berlin-20; Rome-20; Tokyo-20; London-20
Calcutta-15; Shanghi-15; Paris-15; Lennigrad-10; Manila-10; Honolulu-10; Los Angeles-0
Bidding:
The actual bid will be for a number of IPC’s that the one side will grant, from the bank, to the other before the start of the game. This number of IPC’s may
be used to buy game pieces only! You may not save the money or use it for the purchase of Industrial Technology and/or Complexes. Once the bid number
has been determined, the side receiving the bid will make their purchase and place all bid pieces on the game board in territories/sea zones in which they
occupy at the start of the game. You may NOT mix the bid units purchased for one country with units of an allied country. Also, units may not be placed in
Neutral Countries.
To determine who starts the bidding, both sides will roll two dice. The winner, the higher number, chooses whether to start the bidding or defer. Whoever
starts the bid, must announce what side they wish to play (Axis or Allies) and issue a positive bid (minimum 1 IPC). If your opponent takes the bid at 1
IPC then obviously, they wanted to play the other side and the 1 IPC is lost. If they choose to increase the bid, then the bidding will continue until one side
accepts the bid IPC value and buys units accordingly.
(Example of Bidding:) Team A vs. Team B: Team A wins the coin toss and elects to defer their bid. Team B starts the bidding and announces that they
would like to be the Allies, hence, giving money to the Axis. They start the bid at “5” IPC’s; next, Team A bids “7”; Team B bids “8”; Team A stops the
bidding at “8” and takes the Axis. Team A now has 8 imaginary IPC’s to purchase units and place them on the game board in territories/sea zones which
they occupy with units before play. In the above scenario, that would be the Axis. After placement of these units, the game then starts as usual. Remember
any bid money left over is gone…
1942 2nd Edition Rulebook Clarifications & Errata:
• Armor cost 6 IPC’s not 5 IPC’s
• Hawaii/Honolulu is a VICTORY CITY. This is different from the Original Version and is NOT noted in the rulebook as such.
• The Optional rule for Interceptors will NOT be used.
• The Black Sea is OPEN to transports and naval ships including subs.
• Transports are not permitted to offload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more enemy subs unless at least one warship is
present belonging to the attacking power at the end of the combat move phase.
• During an amphibious assault, keep the attacking overland and sea borne land units separated. The attacking sea borne units cannot retreat!
• All overland land units and aircraft participating in an amphibious assault, may retreat after each round of combat if the attacker so chooses.
• All Industrial Complexes have “built-in†AA guns not designated on the game board as pieces.
• AAA (Antiaircraft Artillery): 1. May NOT move during combat phase 2. May only defend when air units are attacking the territory AAA’s are in 3. May
NOT fire at planes passing overhead during any phase 4. Each AAA may only fire at, up to 3 aircraft and only once in the 1st round of combat.
Event Tardiness: If during any tournament round, a team (both members) are tardy for the start of their next game by more than 15 minutes of the
designated start time for that round, this will cause forfeiture in the game and disqualification from the SE event.
Dice Rolling: The game comes with a base set of dice. Using your own dice for rolling to speed up play is permitted. You must let your opponent use any
dice you bring to the table. Please, don’t let dice rolling become a problem in any game…Good Luck!
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1941- not posted- but probably a 2hrs per round tourny with similar rules to the 42 game.
G40 tourny rules were posted but have been taken off- I created these- Smorey style. 12hr per round tourny. If Axis reach 130 IPCs then they win. If not then Allies win. Players have only reached to round 8 in this format which is not good. Probably need them to reach at least round 10-12 to make this game a good FTF tourny game.
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Been to GenCon and played Online here:
My thoughts…
1. Nice to play FTF games- it is fun.
2. Format is a little fast- you have to play fast to get enough rounds in to feel like you’ve somewhat completed a game…still you never feel like you’ve had enough time.
3. Playing AA is like baseball. Its really meant to be played by the number of rounds (innings) not timed quarters. In other words for a game like AA50- 10-11 rounds is enough rounds to make a fair assessment of whose winning. In G40 its 12-14 rounds IMO.
4. Chess clocks- Came up with this idea and told Smorey awhile ago. It was rejected b/c he did not want to have players pay for their own clocks ($20-30). This made no sense b/c he has all players bring there own $40-90 games, so what’s $20 more dollars??? Too set in his ways.
Chess clock idea is simple.
Say for a 6hr round:
This is called G-180 (3hrs a side)- I used to be a chess coach and club player for a number of years.
Players play until one side has a VC win or they reach a certain IPC threshold on their turn (usually established for the Axis). If they run out of time that person loses “on time”. The wins would be immediate when accomplished though (VC win or IPC win) not at the end of a complete round. This would make it similar to an immediate checkmate. -
A Poker timer for $3 solves this problem.
Don’t need chess clocks…
Poker timer can show accumulated time and each player can have their own for this price.
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@Imperious:
A Poker timer for $3 solves this problem. Don’t need chess clocks…Poker timer can show accumulated time and each player can have their own for this price.
Like the low cost–$3 is accessible to everyone. On the other hand, there will be situations where someone forgets to hit Start or Stop at the right time, and a disagreement over time follows, requiring adjudication. A single game (chess) clock avoids those messes–if someone forgets to hit the button it only hurts them, as its their side’s time that will continue to count down until they remember.
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Regarding FTF tourneys…@questioneer:
Format is a little fast- you have to play fast to get enough rounds in to feel like you’ve somewhat completed a game…still you never feel like you’ve had enough time.
I agree, when I play a 6-round game of AA50, it doesn’t feel like I’ve completed a game by OTB standards. Given the time limit, purchases and movement in the last two rounds are always skewed toward achieving last-minute land grabs for tiebreaker points, which would never happen in an OTB game. Even so, I consider those quirks part of the tourney format and enjoy the game none the less.
Playing AA is like baseball. Its really meant to be played by the number of rounds (innings) not timed quarters.
I can understand your point. Six rounds in AA50 feels like it’s the start of the midgame in chess, so you can’t predict who would ultimately win were the game to be played to OTB victory. Some players might be more satisfied with the idea of, “Hey, we have to call the game ‘early’ for Side X, but looking at the board, it was just a matter of time before they would have won anyway (gotten to 13 VC for Projection of Power, for example).” I like the current tourney format a lot but could adapt to a format that forces games to more rounds if that’s what most folks want.
Chess clocks- Came up with this idea and told Smorey awhile ago. It was rejected b/c he did not want to have players pay for their own clocks ($20-30). This made no sense b/c he has all players bring there own $40-90 games, so what’s $20 more dollars???
I don’t think money is the issue. The issue is laying the chess clock requirement on folks without the grass-roots demand for it by the players. A survey or written feedback at GenCon might help back this up or not. Many, I would even say most, of the A&A folks that show up at the cons are there mainly to have a good time with friends, some of whom they only see once or twice a year at these events. They could care less whether the tourney is timed by chess clock or not.
Chess clock idea is simple…Players play until one side has a VC win or they reach a certain IPC threshold on their turn (usually established for the Axis). If they run out of time that person loses “on time”. The wins would be immediate when accomplished though (VC win or IPC win) not at the end of a complete round.
Not so simple, in my opinion. You still need alternate victory conditions should the round time expire with neither side achieving the “checkmate” instant win (VC or IPC). Also, some kind of round setpoint would be needed with chess clocks; otherwise, one side could win just by playing faster. They just need enough skill to prevent the other side from getting an immediate win (VC or IPC) while playing fast, and make the other side time out. Not a very satisfying way to win, or lose. A round setpoint needs to be reasonably achievable (I would argue for 7 or 8 rounds for a 360-minute game), otherwise you’ll have situations where, by the rules players must play 10 rounds in 360 minutes, for example, but both sides use their 180 minutes exactly and only finish 7 rounds, or they’re on Germany’s 8th turn and time is called.
BB
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Chess clocks- I don’t think you understand. Â With the chess clock idea either…
a. One side will run out of time and lose automatically on “time”
b. Or one side will win with a VC win (immediate not end of round)
c. Or one side will win with an IPC victory (predetermined some by the tourny director or maybe even through the bid)
You will NOT wait til one side runs out on time then determine a winner. Â That’s not how this works. Â B. and C. are your checkmates that stop play immediately otherwise A. will happen. Â Unlike the rulebook, B. and C. are “immediate” not at the end of the round.
For example in the current tourny rules I made for Smorey for G40, either a side gets a Euro VC win, a Pac win or Axis acheive 130 IPCs (otherwise) Allies win. Â These need to be done before the clock runs out on your side in which case in a 12-hour round is a G-360 game (6hr a side). Â Otherwise the side, whose clock ran out loses.
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This will force players to play much faster and use their time well…no different than what you currently have except that with an exact parameter, you can fairly assess a winner and a loser. The catch is to get the right time control which may need to be increased by and hour or two for these games…more later…
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Another thing to consider about the timer is that the Allies have one extra country to deal with than the Axis. Should you still split the time evenly when the Allied player has another round of purchases, combat moves, combat, and non-combat moves? There’s a lot of overhead just to complete a turn.
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Another thing to consider about the timer is that the Allies have one extra country to deal with than the Axis. Should you still split the time evenly when the Allied player has another round of purchases, combat moves, combat, and non-combat moves? There’s a lot of overhead just to complete a turn.
That’s where the bid comes in. You bid to compensate for that pressure of having an extra country (or more as in Global- though France, China and ANZAC aren’t that hard)
The chess clock idea CAN be done. I can type up a full description and help with procedures but its Greg Smorey that you have to convince and that is a difficult task. He and the players at GenCon are too set in their ways. The Chess Clock play would make the FTF tourny completely fair timewise and force players to be more efficient. It would eliminate any “stalling” or accusations of such.
For the 42 game I think the bonus system should be tweeked as well. There is no reason why San Fran should be worth nothing. The mistake of Honolulu being a Victory City on that side of the board could be a potential blessing. To essentially eliminate both of those cities as Victory Cities is ridiculous. Japan then has zero motivation to attack in the Pacific- just play defense- eliminating a lot of Pacific strategies for Axis. Again, stripping the game down to nothing. That is virtually what GenCon tourny formats do- its disgusting.
This is the point where Greg will get sensitive and offended and fires back lame reasons for these decisions.
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First, I’m all for trying the chess-clock.
Honestly, however, it doesn’t help the process to outwardly to make a borderline personal attack like that. You can say, “in the past Greg has beens stubborn” because it happened and it’s your view of the situation. But if you want somebody to change something for you, accusations like this about future actions don’t help.
Let’s frame it like this instead: let’s hope that Greg (and other players) will consider some changes if we come up with a set of rules that are well-thought out and thoroughly tested.
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First, I’m all for trying the chess-clock.
Honestly, however, it doesn’t help the process to outwardly to make a borderline personal attack like that. You can say, “in the past Greg has beens stubborn” because it happened and it’s your view of the situation. But if you want somebody to change something for you, accusations like this about future actions don’t help.
Let’s frame it like this instead: let’s hope that Greg (and other players) will consider some changes if we come up with a set of rules that are well-thought out and thoroughly tested.
Ok, fair enough- good luck with that.
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The chess clock idea CAN be done. I can type up a full description and help with procedures but its Greg Smorey that you have to convince and that is a difficult task. He and the players at GenCon are too set in their ways.Â
This is the point where Greg will get sensitive and offended and fires back lame reasons for these decisions.
You had an idea that wasnt accepted. Stop crying about it. If you actually want a chance to see it implemented, stop with the personal attacks and insults.
Get over it already dude…
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squirecam, I already addressed this and thus there is no reason to throw more fuel on the fire; let’s stay on subject.
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Another thing to consider about the timer is that the Allies have one extra country to deal with than the Axis. Should you still split the time evenly when the Allied player has another round of purchases, combat moves, combat, and non-combat moves? There’s a lot of overhead just to complete a turn.
For AA50, the sides are even. China really isnt that hard.
For AA42 second edition, The USA still has a shorter turn. If some adjustment were to be made, perhaps an extra half hour??
But I wouldnt want to take away time from the axis. more like 3.5 and 3 as opposed to 3 and 2.5.
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The chess clock idea CAN be done.�� I can type up a full description and help with procedures but its Greg Smorey that you have to convince and that is a difficult task.�� He and the players at GenCon are too set in their ways.��
This is the point where Greg will get sensitive and offended and fires back lame reasons for these decisions.
You had an idea that wasnt accepted. Stop crying about it. If you actually want a chance to see it implemented, stop with the personal attacks and insults.
Get over it already dude…
Squirecam,
I’m not crying at all. Frankly, I could care less. I’ve been down this road long ago. I’ve accepted the fact that these changes won’t happen. It would be nice to have better changes, but hey, I’m just fine playing quality tournaments at AA.org.
I’m just joining the conversation with chess clocks and sharing ideas.Didn’t I challenge you to a game here at AA.org and you chickened???
Also, MM just quit against Garg…lol :lol:- and that’s the best GenCon’s got??? :roll:
I suppose you also believe, as does Smorey, that all the online AA players “brainwashed” Larry during the Alpha project???
Do you have anything else smart to say Squirecam??? :?
BTW- let’s just stick to the topic…back to chess clocks.
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I already addressed this and thus there is no reason to throw more fuel on the fire; let’s stay on subject.
Sorry, djensen, but have to disagree and address this before getting back on topic…
Questioneer, I suspected it was too good to be true–having a civil discussion with you about chess clocks and timing rules. And then, sure enough, your personal strafing against Greg, now broadened to include “the players at GenCon,” resurfaced en force and unprompted, quite the barrage:
@questioneer:…its Greg Smorey that you have to convince and that is a difficult task. He and the players at GenCon are too set in their ways.
…Again, stripping the game down to nothing. That is virtually what GenCon tourny formats do- its disgusting.
This is the point where Greg will get sensitive and offended and fires back lame reasons for these decisions.
Any person–particularly one like Greg who has devoted 19 summers of his life serving the A&A community as tourney organizer (TO)–would find your comments insulting and hostile. This is not the way to act like a decent human being, much less persuade others to your ideas on A&A tourney formats. A&A tourneys serve three groups: the players, WOTC, and the convention companies. You have to convince that your ideas will increase player satisfaction and turnout, which in turn will make WOTC and the con companies happier. Instead, all I hear from you is a purist vehemence about how the game SHOULD be played, and anything short of that is “lame,†“stripped down,†or “disgusting.†This from a man who has been to GenCon ONE time.
Until you recant, apologize or otherwise change your tone, I’m done listening to you.
I think the chess clock idea has merit, though, and potential application in some form of tourney. I still plan to try it out on the side at GenCon and give Greg feedback on its potential use. Combined with the input of other, less prickly, posters on this forum, I’m certain we can manage without your “help with procedures.â€
BB
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