I believe this website is connected to the Matt Maupin MIA situation. Though not directly related.
His Mom & Dad live in Clermont County, Ohio about 2 counties east of me…the other side of Cincinnati, Ohio.
No time now will check it out later.
We should not attack Iraq
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Quote from F_alk"I don’t critize the US there. I critize Great Britain for its appeasement policy though.
That would (to keep the historical comparisons) be like giving Quwait ot the Iraq to keep them quiet.
The situation is different today from that time."My point is, people like to bitch about the US reguardless of what they do.
Quote from F_alk "For the first:
Why the hell did and do the USA still produce weapons of mass destruction, even illegal ones?
For the secod:
Why do the US spy on even their allies and friends?You seem to take rights for you that you don’t allow other nations. "
Why did they? The cold war is why, and it made most Eurpoean countries safer because of it. How far do you think Russia would have went if not for the US?
America has been down sizing its nuclear weapons ever since the Wall came down.
Your sadly mistaken if you think the US is the only “friendly” nation that spys on its allies.
I’m willing to bet every nation is “guilty” of it.Quote from F_alk"Seriously: I would take away the bat, then bring some distance between the two, and then examine the case."
What if its the 10th time he’s hit her with the bat? He’s done it again and again over the years.
Quote from F_alk"Just as the US are in possession of these weapons, and are capable of using them for terrorist attacks.
It kind of sounds that you are envious to anyone who can do that as well, as if you want to have the monoply of weapons of mass destruction.Come on! you know dam well the US doesn’t use terroist tactics. Its silly of you to even make that statement.
It kind of sounds like you are suggesting we (international community) let any dictator, with a shady past, have access and the means to weapons of mass destruction.Quote from F_alk"as many years as other countries get."
What other countries are you referring to?Qutoe from F_alk"Acting in defense? Well, were did the Iraq attack the US then?
You could claim the fighters again, but would you call shooting at foreign soldiers in your territory “attack”? Couldn’t you argue that it’s the Iraq qho is constantly under attack? (No, that is not my position, but the US are clearly not defending).
Is a pre-emptive strike really defending? Is it defending, because you call an attack a pre-emptive strike? Did Germany never attack the USSR or Poland in WW2 then, just because german media said so?And, you would get the worlds approval with an instant, if you were attacked, just remember Septembre last year."
Defense of future terrorist attacks.
I said nothing about any fighters, sorry.
Don’t know what your saying about WW2 Germany media.??
Does the US have to wait for another terrorist attack before it is OK with everyone?Again, The US feels Iraq is a cog in the terriost threats against them.
They have every right to “defend” against that.I curious, why are you ( that being anyone) against action against Iraq?
I don’t undestand what the outstanding reason are?
It seems clear to me ( if you havn’t guessed) something has to be done. -
we could just hit them with a gaint lazzzzzer beam
no theres little flying robots 2"by2" that have a camera wich susidely crash into things and blow them up with a lot of power, could be used agansit hussain
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I agree with Ghoul, pre-emptive strikes can be very good things. In 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against the Arab countries that resulted in the Six Day War because their intelligence had found that the Jordanian and Egyptian militaries had put their forceson joint command and they were preparing for a full scale offensive with the Syrians and the Iraqis into ISrael. This situation is similar, except that the US wants to dismantle weapons of mass destruction, which I think is good enough reason for a pre-emptive strike.
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what about after Iraq… north korea,yeman,africa?
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Actually, we’re going after Yemen right now (or about a month ago).
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With the economy tanking like mad, we’re going to go and spend a trillion on a war that isn’t needed? And hell, I shouldn’t complain, my father sells materials for Cruise Missles. War = Business.
Money is NO consideration when it comes to war. A war in Iraq would cost an estimated $50-60 billion, which is barely a sliver of our GDP. In fact, I think it’s around 1% if i’m correct. (Source: Newsweek)
Who is the wife at the moment?
The Kurds.
Question: Do you think that Saddam is a terrorist? I do. If not, please explain to me the difference between Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
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50-60 Billion? If the Newsies are correct, we’re talking 500 Billion. Of course, I never trust the Newsies.
The reason for attacking Iraq is questionable to most, however I agree with the reason. However, theres a few things that must be do first. 1) Go through every diplomatic option 2) Go through the UN to it’s fullest extend 3) Develope a clear, concise, and certain plan for setting up a democratic state in Iraq, before we even start the attack.
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What is Saddam likely to do? Let’s look at his history.
- Saddam learned how to torture people and tortures them today as he has for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
- Saddam bought tanks and used them on the people of Iraq and neighboring nations (Iran and Kuwait) for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
- Saddam bought helicopter gunships and used them on the people of Iraq and neighboring nations (Iran and Kuwait) for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
- Saddam’s regime developed chemical weapons and used them on the people of Iraq and Iran for years (multiple eye witness reports.) Persian Gulf War Veterans from a number of countries have reported symptoms that may be attributed to chemical weapons.
- Saddam’s regime developed biological weapons and used them on the people of Iraq and Iran for years (multiple eye witness reports.) Veterans of the Persian Gulf War from various countries have reported symptoms that may be attributed to biological agents.
- Saddam’s regime purchased Scud missles from North Korea (now Iraq builds them) and used them on neighboring nations (Saudi Arabia and Israel) and coalition forces during the Persian Gulf War (multiple eye witness reports.)
- Saddam’s regime has been developing nuclear weapons for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
- The UN has imposed many sanctions upon Iraq. These include, but are not limited to, oil sales for food and medical supplies for the citizens of Iraq, and facility inspections. Saddam has found a way to violate every one of these sanctions.
What do you think he will likely do next?
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Don’t know how the ‘Cool Dude’ ended up on my post!
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Hmmm… pretty good. :)
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- Saddam learned how to torture people and tortures them today as he has for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
So does our merry ally Israel. In fact, the joke after 9/11 was “Well, if we catch Osama, we can’t touch him, but we can always give him to the Isralis”
- Saddam bought tanks and used them on the people of Iraq and neighboring nations (Iran and Kuwait) for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
Our friends in China did that on camera.
- Saddam bought helicopter gunships and used them on the people of Iraq and neighboring nations (Iran and Kuwait) for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
Israel fired a missle from an American made Helicopter into a Residential Building and killed 15 kids. And we have proof on camera.
- Saddam’s regime developed chemical weapons and used them on the people of Iraq and Iran for years (multiple eye witness reports.) Persian Gulf War Veterans from a number of countries have reported symptoms that may be attributed to chemical weapons.
So have we. We are the #1 producer of Biological, Chemical, and Nuclear Weapons. We not only used Chemical weapons on the Germans in WWI, but we also used Biological Warfare against the Indians in the late 1800s. And hell, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We are the only country to use all three.
- Saddam’s regime purchased Scud missles from North Korea (now Iraq builds them) and used them on neighboring nations (Saudi Arabia and Israel) and coalition forces during the Persian Gulf War (multiple eye witness reports.)
They were at war with the countries they fired them upon. Is it a warcrime for us to bomb Bagdad?
- Saddam’s regime has been developing nuclear weapons for years (multiple eye witness reports.)
Yes, and he has failed at building those Nuclear weapons. He does not have the Uranium to build even one. To enrich that Uranium, it would take a huge nuclear plant that would be blown up 10 minutes after it’s seen.
The UN has imposed many sanctions upon Iraq. These include, but are not limited to, oil sales for food and medical supplies for the citizens of Iraq, and facility inspections. Saddam has found a way to violate every one of these sanctions
No he hasn’t. He just has used the Sanctions as an excuse to foster support of his people, like Castro did.
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Quote:
6) Saddam’s regime purchased Scud missles from North Korea (now Iraq builds them) and used them on neighboring nations (Saudi Arabia and Israel) and coalition forces during the Persian Gulf War (multiple eye witness reports.)They were at war with the countries they fired them upon. Is it a warcrime for us to bomb Bagdad?
Israel wasn’t at war with Iraq! I felt the scud missile pass over my house and I felt everything shake. They make huge hissing noises as they pass and we had to wear huge gas masks which were very hard to breathe in. Saddam was trying to draw Israel in in order to bring the coalition apart but he failed. Is it not a war crime to attack a neutral country?
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Israel was not a “neutral” country by any standards. However, because the Arab Countries would not help out if Israelis fought along side them, Israel was never used as a Military ally. However, the Israelis helped fund the war, and their intelligence services did more than the CIA or even the British. Unclassify a few documents and I wouldn’t be shocked if you found Israeli special forces in Iraq.
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Yanny Said:
So have we. We are the #1 producer of Biological, Chemical, and Nuclear Weapons. We not only used Chemical weapons on the Germans in WWI, but we also used Biological Warfare against the Indians in the late 1800s. And hell, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We are the only country to use all three.
France and Britain and Germany also used chemical weapons. Crying out loud the French developed chlorine gas and the Germans developed mustard gas.
Yea, the blankets with smallpox. We all took history and know this. It is a good thing that the Spanish were so nice to the Indians when they were on North America because as we all know the white man is the only one to make Indians suffer.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, yea we dropped A-bombs on them.
It seems that a key element is being skipped over though. All of the acts above, well the people that carried them out are no longer in charge. Many of them very dead. Sadaam however is guilty of some of the above, and still in charge.
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My point is our country has a history of developement and use of biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. And we are still developing them, full speed ahead. Why the hell do we need 20,000 Nukes? Why do we need 10 megagrams of smallpox?
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Did we not already attack Iraq and bomb the crap out of it for the reasons that “Newby” already listed?
for that matter, should we not be bombing Russia and Germany etc. for their past sins as well?
Does not America torture people daily?
Right now, Iraq isn’t doing a lot of a whole bunch of things, except being under suspicion of having weapons under its control.
We’ll never be able to prove they don’t have weapons, so how long do we get to assault their soverignty until we are satisfied? Forever?
How long did we give Russia, China, etc?
I agree with Yanny on this one. We must be hyper-vigilent in the middle East, but this business of a pre-emptive killing of another country’s citizens without a declaration of war or attack is a little . . . war-hawkish. -
@cystic:
Did we not already attack Iraq and bomb the crap out of it for the reasons that “Newby” already listed? …
I agree with Yanny on this one. We must be hyper-vigilent in the middle East, but this business of a pre-emptive killing of another country’s citizens without a declaration of war or attack is a little . . . war-hawkish.applauds whole heatedly
(who would have thought that i would agree with CC :) ) -
oh F_alk
we’ve agreed on stuff before, n’est pas?
I’ve always considered you to one of the more rational posters. -
@cystic:
oh F_alk
we’ve agreed on stuff before, n’est pas?
I’ve always considered you to one of the more rational posters.That’s right…. we have agreed before… but it surely was no religious topic :) :) … and thanks for the compliment
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@Mr:
Quote from F_alk "For the first:
Why the hell did and do the USA still produce weapons of mass destruction, even illegal ones?
For the secod:
Why do the US spy on even their allies and friends?You seem to take rights for you that you don’t allow other nations. "
Why did they? The cold war is why, and it made most Eurpoean countries safer because of it. How far do you think Russia would have went if not for the US?
America has been down sizing its nuclear weapons ever since the Wall came down.
Your sadly mistaken if you think the US is the only “friendly” nation that spys on its allies.
I’m willing to bet every nation is “guilty” of it.You didn’t answer the queation after the “why do they still” and ignored the illegal ones.
Yes, after the war there was a danger of another war, but not directly after it. None of any allied people would have understood why to fight on. The russians wouldn’t have gone further, as they have already met the allies, remember the deal of the western allies and the russians, to exchange some of east germany for a part of Berlin. The climate cooled down since then, but the danger of a directly successive war was not given. Even in the liberated countries with much interest of both sides, the russians went to use (weaknesses of) the democratic ways to strengthen their position (like Greece, Yugoslavia, East Germany, etc.). If you read the party programs of the west german parties after the war, even the conservatives were (in american standards extremely) socialist. But you are right, the climate cooled down since then, and a war might have started later (when the soviets had nuclear weapons of their own).For the spying: I can give you proof that the US spies on the german economic and inventions, stealing some of them. Can you give me proof that we do the same to you?
Just because you “think” it is someway, doesn’t make it that way!Quote from F_alk"Seriously: I would take away the bat, then bring some distance between the two, and then examine the case."
What if its the 10th time he’s hit her with the bat? He’s done it again and again over the years.
Oh well, that i can only know when i start to examine the case!
Or could you see from the tip of his nose that he has done it once, twice or ten times?
The punishment afterwards is something where i would then look at the legal system, which punishment for which crime etc.Quote from F_alk"Just as the US are in possession of these weapons, and are capable of using them for terrorist attacks.
It kind of sounds that you are envious to anyone who can do that as well, as if you want to have the monoply of weapons of mass destruction.Come on! you know dam well the US doesn’t use terroist tactics. Its silly of you to even make that statement.
It kind of sounds like you are suggesting we (international community) let any dictator, with a shady past, have access and the means to weapons of mass destruction.lol
No, of course. The US never supported guerrilas in america, to fight against the elected government. The CIA never was involved in anything illegal…… that’s all lies… just as Saddam in real is the most peaceful person since Gandhi…
shaking my head
And let’s have a look at which dictator was supported by the americans…
Hmmmm… nearly all…
You even cooperated with Germany after WWI, clearly breaking the peace treaty of Versaille with that. ANd this cooperation lived on till '41…Quote from F_alk"as many years as other countries get."
What other countries are you referring to?which other country in the middle east continously defies UN resolutions?
Qutoe from F_alk"Acting in defense? Well, were did the Iraq attack the US then?
You could claim the fighters again, but would you call shooting at foreign soldiers in your territory “attack”? Couldn’t you argue that it’s the Iraq qho is constantly under attack? (No, that is not my position, but the US are clearly not defending).
Is a pre-emptive strike really defending? Is it defending, because you call an attack a pre-emptive strike? Did Germany never attack the USSR or Poland in WW2 then, just because german media said so?And, you would get the worlds approval with an instant, if you were attacked, just remember Septembre last year."
Defense of future terrorist attacks.
I said nothing about any fighters, sorry.
Don’t know what your saying about WW2 Germany media.??
Does the US have to wait for another terrorist attack before it is OK with everyone?To the fighters: “you could”…. man, do i have to teach you your grammar ;)
To german WW2 media: The attacks on Poland and Russia were “pre emptive strikes”, if you believed the Nazi propaganda.
And to the terrorists: You are after Al Kaeda and Bin Laden… and the whole world supports you in this. As long as you fight them, noone will say anything, but the Iraq is a different story.
They have a dictator, true. This dictator has committed crimes, true. He is being punished for that.
Starting a war, to get rid of any peoples government, is an act of aggression and anti-democratic. Would you bow, if someone told you: Get rid of GWB, or we will bomb your country into oblivion? Would you?Again, The US feels Iraq is a cog in the terriost threats against them.
They have every right to “defend” against that.I feel i get paid not enough. I feel the currentUS government are arrogant hawks, who should fight in the first front line in whichever war they start. I feel like a coffee and a cigarette.
You start a war because you feel threatened by a second class dictator?
That is worse than anything heard here before, even worse than still caling a pre emptive strike “defending”.I curious, why are you ( that being anyone) against action against Iraq?
I don’t undestand what the outstanding reason are?
It seems clear to me ( if you havn’t guessed) something has to be done.Read my previous posts.
I think i have made my point clear enough there and more than once. If you wish, feel free to ask me again, i then will answer. But not before you made at least an effort to read what i wrote before.PS: Yes, maybe diplomacy with the Iraq is hard, and effort, and noone garantuees total success. But that is life: There is no total security, no total success, and you have to work for the limited success you want.
These are part of the “american dream”, aren’t they? Why is that skipped, has your dream died? Are you not willing to work for successes, are you like a spoiled child? Wanting everything, and screaming and kicking if you don’t get it all and at once?
… if that is so… then let’s hope that you grow up, and do so quickly…
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