‘‘If anything the war made the world safe for communism, which was as embattled as democracy inthe 1930’s and close to eclipse by 1942. One of the most significant consequences of the war was the spread of communism in Europe and Asia and its consolidation in the Soviet Union. This outcome reflected the significant role played by the Soviet forces in defeating Germany. There is now widespread recognition that the decisive thearte of operations lay on the eastern front. Without Soviet resistanceit is difficult to see how the democratic world would have defeated the new German empire, except by sitting tight and waiting until Atomic weapons had been developed. The great paradox of the Second World War is that democacy was saved by the exertions of communism.’’
Richard Overy, taken from the book ‘Why the allies won’
Im not saying that russia did not play a center role in ww2, just it was not ideals of communism that won the war, yet alone saved democracy.
Democracy wasnt even under that much of a threat (since US was still fine and dandy and Sealion was called off). Its that 1 statement that mis states what happened in the war. (probably to increase the reader’s interests). Just big puff of smoke in reality.
It was Germany who attack russia. Russia did not attack Germany (it might of a few years later anyway though). Hitler bit off alot more than his reich can chew (definately when he delcared war in the US). Germany was embroiled on a war on 2 fronts by the 3 major powers of Russia/UK/US. Facism pissed everybody off. It became self-defeating because it was over aggressive. (According to the style of the quote).
Anyways, communist russia totally imploaded late 80’s early 90’s and Democracy is still around.
I’m not getting involved with the “political” discussion above but only wanted to make a point concerning strategy.
IMHO my enemy’s TRANSPORTS are almost always ENEMY NUMBER ONE. It’s priority as such, and the efforts and sacrifices to kill it/them are usually well worth it. This unit is what makes war-fighting possible for overseas expeditions such as with Italy. If you can kill your enemy’s Transports you will leave him neutered as far as overseas expeditions are concerned. If nothing else you will force them to spend large amounts on their protection. Something that Italy usually can’t afford. If you utilize this “Core Strategy” from the beginning and follow through you’ll see the advantages.
“Tall Paul”
Yes, Italy does grow easily and often, since UK is obligated to protect against Sealion.
What UK has to do is to learn to deal with it-
Keep Italy from leaving Egypt as long as possible, by stacking up in Iraq and Sudan/Ethiopia - by utilizing complexes in Central Persia and South Africa. Â That will keep them from exploding too easily.
Wait for America to crack Gibraltar and enter the Med.
Once you’ve established naval supremacy in the Med, flood SZ 97 and SZ 93 with subs. Â That will take them down.
By the way, the phrase “saved by the exertions of communism” implies Democracy was ever in need of saving.
It was not.
You’re right though, in that the numbers show that Russians are by far the best at achieving victory through the strategy of “I have more Russians than you have bullets.” :lol:
All those numbers prove, is how stupid communism was.
And how willing it was to throw bodies on the fire, to make communism work. There is something like a 7 to 1 kill ratio of russians to germans on the eastern front.
But when you’re killing YOUR OWN people, Killing people in your subsiduary states (Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Finland etc), Killing people because they are a political threat to your power, and killing people by ordering them to stay in cities under massive bombardment and attack - your going to end up with a few extra casualties.
The final reality is, that if the allies weren’t tying German Aircraft, ships, and resources down, drawing troop and financial focus, as well as supplied the russians with desperately needed resources, food, commando’s, weapons and supplies. The people would have turned in on themselves, and thier leader Stalin.
Using bodycount is NOT a viable way of justifying stupidity as “hard work”.
That said, I have to AGREE with Tall Paul. Transport’s are everything. Sink them as quickly as possible, and you’ll maintain your game balance.
@Vance:
and Democracy is still around.
more or less.
ya, i was tempted to say ish or kinda when i wrote that
@Tall:
I’m not getting involved with the “political” discussion above but only wanted to make a point concerning strategy.
IMHO my enemy’s TRANSPORTS are almost always ENEMY NUMBER ONE. It’s priority as such, and the efforts and sacrifices to kill it/them are usually well worth it. This unit is what makes war-fighting possible for overseas expeditions such as with Italy. If you can kill your enemy’s Transports you will leave him neutered as far as overseas expeditions are concerned. If nothing else you will force them to spend large amounts on their protection. Something that Italy usually can’t afford. If you utilize this “Core Strategy” from the beginning and follow through you’ll see the advantages.
“Tall Paul”
EXACTLY!! This is how UK is able to keep Italy in check. If the UK can keep some planes down there in the Med, just enough to be able to fight off the Italian scramble planes, then Italy will never be able to put any ships, much less transports, in the Med and they will be stuck on Italy. No African territories, No Middle East. Italy will stagnate until US comes in to sop them up.
KNP,
I feel that if the UK blunts the Italian player strongly(Kill the Transports) on the 1st/2nd turn(s) then much of the important work is already accomplished.
Whether the UK continues to spend any effort or IPCs later is almost discretionary.
“Tall Paul”
An Italy without ships and planes, becomes a poor man’s China.
Young Grasshopper,
@Young:
An Italy without ships and planes, becomes a poor man’s China.
Well said, sir.
And do I see a new look for you?
“Tall Paul”
@Tall:
Young Grasshopper,
@Young:
An Italy without ships and planes, becomes a poor man’s China.
Well said, sir.
And do I see a new look for you?
“Tall Paul”
Made the decision to change my avatar and signature every new year, and after a few choices and changes, what you see now is my new look for the next 300+ days. Thanks for noticing TP.
Im currently playing a game at home here and Italy has lost its Navy and to be honest isnt a threat in the Med any more. How ever it was partly due to the fact that Japan has a had a terrible time of it and the USA is able to commit more to the atlantic. But the fact that the UK and USA have had to put quite a lot of resouces to achieve this, Germany is fast expanding into the USSR. To sum up I think Italy should expand and become a threat so the allies forget about Germany to and extent and therefor make the war against USSR that little bit easier. Italys success depends on Japan.
Italys success depends on Japan.
Yeah, this is another thing I have noticed. The main factor is whether or not Japan takes Calcutta. In a lot of our games, India builds planes and sends them over to Egypt for the UK to use against Italy. If Japan comes in and grabs India, and Germany is keeping UK Europe busy, then that means no more planes for the UK in the Med and eventually Italy will take out what UK has and start rebuilding a navy.
Does your UK player fall asleep at the table? I can easily manhandle Italy with UK using just the units UK starts the game with. When USA comes over on turn 4, Italy is in serious trouble.
Ya, but that means US would need to split income during the turns he is at peace if germ goes sealion. In the case of sealion, italy usually gets back on its feet by the 4th or 5th turn.
I think that UK has the advantages in the Mediterranean, and that Italy won’t have Egypt when the US comes in.
However, I have seen it all when it comes to rolls in the Med. I’ve seen all Italian naval units lost, save 1 transport, for 1 British destroyer lost.
I have also seen the reverse. So if Italy gets good rolls they can be a superpower. But if not, they’re in trouble.
