but, like i said before, would germany really try a sealion and bring america into the game 1-2 rounds early???
Absolutely.
Bringing the US in early in this manner brings them in to the Atlantic full force, freeing up Japan. Plus you’ve taken out the UK from producing anything in Europe until the US can (hopefully) come and liberate London. If you’ve done it cheaply (by the UK NOT building a london defense) that means that you have probably got more german units sitting in London that the US can handle in one round as well.
Then, Italy can concentrate on taking out Egypt all on it’s own…
Building an IC in Egypt is a bad idea.
I agree. The UK building an IC in Egypt is pretty much a gift to the Italians. In the games I have played, Italy just about always gets Egypt, usually round 1 or 2. The Italian navy is too strong for what British navy is in the Med and with 3 transports full of troops and equipment, the Italians almost always over run the Brits and Aussies on Egypt. As for the Taranto raid, it never happens in my games. With the Germans sending a couple of planes to S. Italy, it is suicide for the British to attack SZ 95 or 97.
Building an IC in Egypt is a bad idea.
I agree. The UK building an IC in Egypt is pretty much a gift to the Italians. In the games I have played, Italy just about always gets Egypt, usually round 1 or 2. The Italian navy is too strong for what British navy is in the Med and with 3 transports full of troops and equipment, the Italians almost always over run the Brits and Aussies on Egypt. As for the Taranto raid, it never happens in my games. With the Germans sending a couple of planes to S. Italy, it is suicide for the British to attack SZ 95 or 97.
2 transports at taranto can easily be taken out, so no egypt for italy…
Yes, you can take out the 2 Italian transports but at what cost? If you do that, the Brit navy is toast by the Germany airforce and if anything is left over, the Italians finish them off, then rebuild their transports(cheap), get 5 NO’s for no Allied navy in the med, can take N. Africa(another 5 NO’s) and take Gib(denied Allied access to the med). I’ve always put the Brit fleet in SZ92, away from the German airforce, 3 spaces away from SZ109 and SZ110 and the Italians don’t have enough firepower to take them out if you put 3 FTR’s in Gib, plus another 2 FTR’s or 1 FTR, 1 Tac on the AC. Much better option, IMHO. I’d rather lose Egypt than the Med, N. Africa & Gib. I always retreat from Egy if I need to. Kill the Italians in Eth, build in Saf because usually the Germany player doesn’t go for Sea Lion once you build enough stuff in the UK and you usually have enough IPC’s to build a few units down in Saf. By the time the Italians take Egy and every thing else they need, the US is the in war, takes Gib and Mor back Turn 4 and makes things very sticky for the Italians the rest of the game. And the Brits would have held most of Africa from the Italians. And the Italians can’t really do much w/Russia by then, so it’s game over for the Axis. I believe the better Italian strategy is, take N. Africa, forget about Egy, unless it’s really easy to take, try and take out the Brit navy in the Med if possible but go hard for Russia, by going through Syr, Irq and Npr in the south. And helping the Germans through Rom.
My question follows:
In Alpha +2, if Germany play “as expected”, meaning that they threaten the sea lion (by having a few barges, ect…) but are actually going more towards invading Russia. How do you manage to keep the Italians off Egypt?I know that might sound strange, but in all my games, the damn pizza-eating bastards take it…
Ignore Germany, defend Egypt! If England falls, WHO CARES??? Seriously, the Germans still can’t win if England falls, England’s going to fall anyway and you may as well make life has hellish for the Italians as possible anyway, since they are the deciding factor on whether or not Russia is defeated before America’s invading West Germany.
I think you can defend Egypt AND prevent Sea Lion if you play your cards right. Or, at the very least, make things difficult in Egypt/Med for the Italians, until the US comes into the war and takes Gib, if it was taken and Mor/N. Africa. Then, it’s really bad for the Italians.
@Frontovik:
leftovers from taranto and indian fighters should be enough.
At the risk of sounding retarded: what do you mean “taranto”?
Taranto was the British attack on the Italian Battle fleet in the italian naval base of Taranto.
I see.
So by saying “Taranto” what is referred to? The british fleet attacking the italian fleet in 95 or in 97?
in 97. it usually can take out 2 transports a cruiser a battleship and the Italian fighter if it scrambles. which is 56 ipcs gone for Italy. that’s hard to recover from. downside is, Brits can loose a lot and Italy can come in with the rest of her navy and kill the remainder of the Brits
I think you can defend Egypt AND prevent Sea Lion if you play your cards right.
If Germany wants England, you are going to lose England. It is all about stacking your units so as to get double usage out of your transports. (Take Scotland HARD. Now England either attacks it losing manpower or does not giving you more manpower. In this way, you get the units the transports brought last turn and the ones you bring this turn.)
I, honestly, dont see a way for England to prevent Sea Lion, unless Germany loses fighters in SZ 97 and/or SZ 110, 111 or 112.
Yes, you can take out the 2 Italian transports but at what cost? If you do that, the Brit navy is toast by the Germany airforce and if anything is left over, the Italians finish them off, then rebuild their transports(cheap), get 5 NO’s for no Allied navy in the med, can take N. Africa(another 5 NO’s) and take Gib(denied Allied access to the med). I’ve always put the Brit fleet in SZ92, away from the German airforce, 3 spaces away from SZ109 and SZ110 and the Italians don’t have enough firepower to take them out if you put 3 FTR’s in Gib, plus another 2 FTR’s or 1 FTR, 1 Tac on the AC. Much better option, IMHO. I’d rather lose Egypt than the Med, N. Africa & Gib. I always retreat from Egy if I need to. Kill the Italians in Eth, build in Saf because usually the Germany player doesn’t go for Sea Lion once you build enough stuff in the UK and you usually have enough IPC’s to build a few units down in Saf. By the time the Italians take Egy and every thing else they need, the US is the in war, takes Gib and Mor back Turn 4 and makes things very sticky for the Italians the rest of the game. And the Brits would have held most of Africa from the Italians. And the Italians can’t really do much w/Russia by then, so it’s game over for the Axis. I believe the better Italian strategy is, take N. Africa, forget about Egy, unless it’s really easy to take, try and take out the Brit navy in the Med if possible but go hard for Russia, by going through Syr, Irq and Npr in the south. And helping the Germans through Rom.
even if they do so, the british indian fleet and fighters can kill leftover italian fleet easily (perhaps not if protected by airbase, but that means they aren’t roaming the med).
and even in worst case, they get 3 boni, US can finish everything in 1 round from declaration of war…
I think putting the UK fleet in Sea Zone 92 is almost as devistating as taking out the 2 Italian transports but it sure hurts as Italy to not have those transports on it’s first turn. Especially if the USA is heading their way first. Also any German planes the UK fleet manages to take out is kind of like a bonus at that point…
@Cmdr:
I think you can defend Egypt AND prevent Sea Lion if you play your cards right.
If Germany wants England, you are going to lose England. It is all about stacking your units so as to get double usage out of your transports. (Take Scotland HARD. Now England either attacks it losing manpower or does not giving you more manpower. In this way, you get the units the transports brought last turn and the ones you bring this turn.)
I, honestly, dont see a way for England to prevent Sea Lion, unless Germany loses fighters in SZ 97 and/or SZ 110, 111 or 112.
If you build 4 Inf, 4 Art the 1st Turn w/the UK. Then build another 1 Art, 9 Inf in Turn 2. Plus bring over the 1 Inf, 1 Arm from Que(because most German players don’t kill the Trans in SZ109) and bring all your FTR’s & Tac to the UK. And prevent shore bombard in SZ’s109 and SZ110. That’s 23 @ 2’s 2@3’s and 6 @4’s, plus AA. And, you can split up your Med fleet between SZ’s 109 and SZ110, which makes the German player dedicate resources(i.e. navy/aircraft to kill what’s in one of those SZ’s) so he can land in UK. It makes it pretty difficult, if not impossible to do Sea Lion. You can also send the DD in SZ98 to block in SZ111, which prevents the Germans from even reaching SZ109 on Turn 3. Therefore the UK player can put the rest of it’s fleet in SZ110, which requires even more firepower from the Germans.
That’s conveluted, just a thought, next time, split it up so it looks prettier.
Anyway, there are good odds the transport in SZ 106 is toast, so you have the one in SZ 109 only.
Yes, you can have +18 units in England, but I don’t think that’s enough to stop Sea Lion.
1) 6-8 Units go to Scotland Round 2.
2) 6-8 Units + 6-8 Units in Scotland Attack England + 5 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers and 1 Strategic Bomber.
That’s 16 Ground Units + 11 Air Units, but assume two of those are lost to AA Guns.
If you put a ship in SZ 110, then you’ll have less to defend England with, so I’ll assume I have the Cruiser and Battleship bombardment as well. (Of course, Italy could sink the ship anyway and thus you would have less units to defend England AND I would get my shore bombardments.)
England has 23 Ground Units, AA Gun and 5 or 6 Fighters.
Let’s say:
23 Infantry, 6 Fighters, AA Gun Defending
12 Infantry, 4 Artillery, 6 Armor, 5 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers, Strategic Bomber, Cruiser and Battleship Attacking
Opening Fire: 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber lost to AA Gun fire.
Germany has a 92.4% Chance to win with 4 Fighters, 5 Bombers and 1 Armor remaining.
Like I said, the Brits can block the shore bombards from the BB & CC if they want. And, you’re assuming that the Germans lost no aircraft in Turn 1(taking out the Brit navy) and the Brits only get 2 hits from AA during Sea Lion. And you forgot about the Tac, along w/the 6 FTR’s and the Tank from Que. So that’s 23 Inf, 6 FTR’s, 1 Tac, 1 Arm, plus AA(we’ll use your calculations of 1 FTR & 1 Tac from the AA), against what you said for the Germans. My odds calculator says that’s about a 50/50 battle for Sea Lion. I don’t know too many Axis players that will attack w/that odds. And, in all my games I’ve never had a person Sea Lion me once. Not saying it’s not possible or not a good strategy. Just saying I believe most Axis players will not risk a Sea Lion battle, unless it’s at least a 70% battle in their favor. I would also add that this allows the Italians to run wild in the Med but just saying I think Sea Lion can be costly, risky and a good chance of being prevented if the Brit player really wants to.
I have never lost aircraft sinking the British navy. But then, I also don’t defend the Italian navy because I want all my planes for Sea Lion.
England cannot block the bombardment. Even if Italy does not clear SZ 110, Germany can and then attack on G4 with their fleet stationed in SZ 110. (PS: Wicked Idea: 2 Airbases, 1 in Normandy, 1 in Holland. Go ahead, attack my fleet!)
Basing aircraft in Sitaly still lets them influence the English Channel on G2 or even sz 111 if they are landing on a carrier. I don’t see it as a dilution of Germany’s strength provided they return to the North in time for G3.
pretty much the only reason that they are put there is to stop taranto UK1, then the italians can pretty much take care of themselves.
pretty much the only reason that they are put there is to stop taranto UK1, then the italians can pretty much take care of themselves.
They don’t stop it, they just make it painful for England.
However, that said, I’ll only go after SZ 97 if Germany puts fighters there! If I can kill 1 or 2 of them (probably 2 of them) then I have a lot less work to do to stop Sea Lion.
