Try building a major IC in Romania on Turn 2. Attack Russia on Turn 3. Used a two prong attack. You might find different results.
I’ll give it a shot, but dong a rush on Moscow form turn 2 (I even took Leningrad turn 2 via 3 TTs), and it looks like I will get stalled in Bela.
In a different game I have 11 TTs but took Lenin instead turn 3 with 22 units. That one may work out better, but only because I probably rattled my opponent.
Russia is not too strong, if anything, I find they are a bit weak. Obviously, they are not the push-over country they once were! I mean, common, in Revised, Anniversary and Classic if the Allies didn’t rush to dump massive amounts of troops into Russia, Russia fell to the Germans very easily. That’s very ahistorical and not a very good game, IMHO.
Now, if to state that Russia is too strong, to me, means that Russia has a decent chance of taking Berlin. That does not seem to be the case. The whole objective for Russia to take Berlin seems like a sick joke to me as the odds of Russia ever getting Berlin appears to get darn close to zero, whereas the odds of Germany attaining victory in Moscow will, eventually, be assured, without significant Allied involvement.
Have you considered using the Italians in Russia? I know, a strange thought! After all, because all the Italian NOs are in or near the Med, we feel we have to invest 20 rounds of Italian income into attaining and maintaining them! But do we really? Are the objectives how you win the game? No. How do you win the game? You get victory cities. How do you get victory cities? You move into position and attack them.
Now, Russian stacks CAN be an obstacle, I do not disagree. It is wise to have German aircraft present with your armies so as to dwindle the odds of any Russian attack! But you cannot stack aircraft on newly conquered land! But wait! YES YOU CAN! Italy attacks the territory, taking their lumps (which will be countered, in part with the income from the land) and Germany moves in to reinforce! Now you CAN land your planes preventing Russia from attacking your armies!
This puts Russia in the position of having their armies circumnavigated or retreating them! Sure, they could swing around north or south to get around your armies, perhaps moving in to threaten your reinforcements, but common, is that really a threat? Really? Germany is earning 50-60 IPC, Russia is earning 30-40 IPC. You don’t think you couldnt build a second army and squeeze the Russians to death between them? Or perhaps you use one to hold the Russians out and the other to beat them into submission in their victory cities?
The whole point is: Use the Italians like a can opener. It’s slower on land, but it is also more effective on land! Russia CAN be beaten if the Americans don’t help, just like in every other version of the game. However, unlike other versions of the game, you actually have to think of a plan to defeat Russia, it isn’t just a given. Germany has 8 Tanks, Russia has 2 Tanks. Germany has 11 Aircraft, Russia has 3 Aircraft.
Yes, Russia CAN slow the Germans down. Yes, the Americans WILL isolate and neutralize Japan (how could it be else when America is so massively over powered?) but with Italian support, you might be able to break Russia before America can swing around and stop you. That’s how you win against an American Pac-Strat. It requires a sprinkle of luck, a modicum of persistance and a heaping helping of wit and strategy. But it can be done!
PS: I’d like to see it permissible for America to attack Japan if Japan invades Russia. It’s just plain silly that Japan can invade Russia to begin with. It’s always been silly, and it will remain to be silly! But I see the utility in it, I just think the America people would get ROYALLY TICKED OFF if Japan just started driving through Russia.
PPS: I wouldn’t mind moving the 2 Infantry in Karelia and 3 Infantry in Vybork back to Novosobirsk or Timguska to alleviate some pressure on Germany. I don’t think it’s really needed most of the time, but I could see an issue if the dice go really sour for Germany.
Try building a major IC in Romania on Turn 2. Attack Russia on Turn 3. Used a two prong attack. You might find different results.
I have tried it against Botider, Mollari (Vir), and a few other players. The cost of the factory never gets recouped to justify the strategy. IMHO.
Have you tried the Infantry Push Mechanic?
Germany 2: 68 IPC to spend
Germany 3: 49 IPC to spend
Russia 1-3: 111 IPC
Germany, having spent all in the water on round 1, still has 6 IPC more to spend before attacking on Round 4 than Russia does. Something to consider, since you massively out number them in the air and on land.
Italy takes E. Poland, Germany reinforces
Italy takes N. Ukraine, Germany reinforces
Italy takes S. Ukraine and Bryansk; Germany reinforces Bryansk
Italy builds in S. Ukraine, takes Tam or Ras; Germany blitzes Volgorod and reinforces the Italians
From there, Italy moves to the Middle East for the NOs, while Germany moves into position against Russia. (Assumes Japan’s coming in the back door as well.)
Further, 3 Strategic Bombers is equivalent to 12 damage to Russia’s complex, on average, and costs Germany about 6 IPC in replacing bombers. (Russia will NOT throw up interceptors, they cannot afford to replace them, Germany starts with 5 escorts, they’d have to lose all 5 to need to start replacing fighters as they still have 5 tacticals.)
Good point on SBR, never thought to make the russians suffer that way in this version… I like it.
Russia is not too strong. SBR on the two eastern factories goes a long way to making them even softer. The problem for Russia against a strong Germany is to determine where to concentrate forces. Germany has much more mobility with the transports purchased in Turn 1 or Turn 2 and in one turn totally shift the focus of the attack. Allowing them to feint if you will. A German player that doesn’t come from Scandinavia as well as, the Baltic, Poland and Romania isn’t effectively keeping the Russian player off balance.
I say give Germany a minor factory in Romania. And maybe take away a few Russian inf.
Tried a true neutral blitz through Turkey? You can get to Iraq with armor by G3… Can make the difference. If you catch them by surprise.
Then again, it REALLY depends on how well you are doing elsewhere… Because you activate whatever 20+ infantry against you.
I like the idea of a minor in Romania, it’s my position that you need one anyways.
it’s my position that you need one anyways.
Really ? Wouldn’t Yugo be a more useful place for a german Mic ?
We are advocating for an IC as part of the set-up.
Yugo can’t be upgraded to a major, is one less zone away from Russia, doesn’t touch the black sea, and can’t be added to the starting setup.
If you have a Yugo specific complex strategy, you can still build it in conjunction with the one we are advocating for in Romania.
wouldn´t this make too easy for germany? having an IC near the russian borders?
the minor IC in Berlin already got upgraded to a major one. this already made it a lot easier to catch russia.
and i agree: russia is not too strong! it is hard, as it should be. but it can be beaten, conquered, sacked, however anyone might call it…sake of an early attack: G2.
leave yugo for italy, take greece instead. this buys time for the axis. build art (first turn only!), mechs and tanks etc. this way you cover more spaces and take russia out alone!
and just imagine having some italian mech on your side, paired with a tank from albania! it works!
rock`n roll
Playing a game of Europe only, and it becomes painfully clear that something is needed.
Play a game of Europe only, with absolutely NO American units or interference…
see how different it plays out. And how quickly - if possible, you can win as Germany.
If you lose, there is a BIG problem.
One of the problems I also have, is with all the ships in the med… Italy can’t seem to get anything started, if the UK is sent on playing the denial/slow game.
But there IS America and it IS a consideration.
In any game in which you are not testing a Pac Strat you will always be concerned if America decides, suddenly, to drop 100 IPC in the Atlantic.
Ya and then it’s not a 100% pacific Strategy Jen. Which is my point.
America is REQUIRED to build in the atlantic, or they will lose. You force them to do it, by playing as if they were never there. Voila. Problem solved.
No. Just because you have to plan for the contingency that America MIGHT build in the Atlantic does not mean America ever will build in the Atlantic, only that you have to keep units in reserve to deal with it.
Ya and then it’s not a 100% pacific Strategy Jen. Which is my point.
America is REQUIRED to build in the atlantic, or they will lose. You force them to do it, by playing as if they were never there. Voila. Problem solved.
I still think Germany performing a True Neutral crush would be a pretty sweet Strategy to make the Allies pay for having USA spend all their points in the Pacfic…
I’ve always like building a Major IC in Romania, because it allows me to grab the more valuable territories in the south. If the Germans just go full steam ahead into Novgorod, they won’t be accumulating a lot of IPCs every turn. I used to build a Major in Romania but now i feel that a Minor is a lot more efficient…by G2 you could have 8 infantry, 6 tanks, and a combo of aircraft to hit southern Russia, which is usually better than anything the Russians can come up with, unless they abandon the North. That’s why a 2 pronged attack is the best…it forces the Russians to split their forces, which they are not economically capable of doing, whereas the Germans are.
I totally agree KillOFreeze! Except I still like the major IC in Romania! :-D
