German Strategy: Mediterranean Offensive

[Guest]

I came up with a German strategy of being more offensive in the Mediterranean and posted it to my blog, but figured I can post it here as well to see if anyone has some thoughts on it =)

On turn 1, take France and clear out Britains fleet as usual, having your battleship (and hopefully cruiser) alive in zone 112 and moving your transport there from 113.  You purchase an aircraft carrier and a transport and deploy them to 112, landing two planes on the carrier for protection.  Britain will likely assume you are going for a Sea Lion and purchase defensively, perhaps infantry.

On turn 2, load up your transports in 112 with land units and take the whole fleet to sea zone 91, taking Gibraltar and Morocco and granting you your +5 IPC objective for having troops in Africa.  Build a small factory in Yugoslavia and a few subs in 112.

On turn 3, your fleet can then move into the Mediterranean, clearing out any French or British naval units that may still be there, and arrive in Italy.  Your land units can march east in Africa, taking Algeria.  Move your 4 subs to sea zone 109 to drain Britain for 8 IPC.  Walk 4 land units down from West Germany to Italy.

On turn 4, your fleet can now assist Italy with taking Cairo, ensuring the Axis have both Africa and the Mediterranean locked down.  With Germany’s small factory in Yugoslavia, it can build ships into the Mediterranean to back up Italy if necessary as well.  Italy should now have two of its objectives (no allied ships in the Mediterranean and owning South France, Cairo and Greece), granting it +10 IPC each turn.

This seems to setup the Axis better to hold off the yanks who arrive shortly thereafter.  Thoughts?

(is a bit more detail and a pic on my blog if anyone is curious, but the meat of the strategy is posted above)

[Almano]

Germany does not collect 5 IPCs for having land units in Africa. It is 5 IPCs for land units in Egypt

[Guest]

Ack, thanks for the correction, didn’t have the rules with me when I wrote this =)

[marechallannes]

Intersesting Strategy to reach the italian bonuses.

But you’ll need transports in the baltic sea to punch the russians and reinforce norway.

Maybe on G2 another carrier + transport for Germany?

But this is the turn I already want to invade russia…

[FieldMarshalGames]

Have you tried this out in a REAL game yet?  I would like to know how it plays out.

I played ITALY and I found it very hard to keep Gibraltar when you have one move and the Allies have two (UK & USA).  Maybe German help is a good idea?

[JamesAleman]

I like the threaten UK use for the transports, what if you moved to Gibraltar with your fleet, then send 1-2 transports, and either the Cruiser or Battleship into the Mediterranean and returned the rest of the fleet back to 112.

Once back in 112, if you felt you needed 1-2 additional transports, that would be about the cost of a minor factory in Norway.

This might be a good backup plan in case you lose too many air units on your first turn and scrap Sealion.

[Gargantua]

I built an Acc and 2 trns G1. I did almost exactly this strategy mentioned, and put my conglomerated navy without subs of course off of west germany.  Feigning the Sealion.

This was awesome, of course the UK fell back, and huddled in england. I then split my navy - one small arm taking Gibraltar, the other cruiser,remaining sub/subs, and planes, and smashed the last bit of UK fleet.  My build - placed in West Germany  -was also 4 subs and some planes.

This put me in an excellent position.  By the end of G2 I had a battleship and fully loaded acc of the coast of Gibraltar - which was mine - with transports - with full loads sitting in GIB and Morocco.  4 Subs off of west germany mixed with air cover, meant britain couldn’t do a damn thing to stop me - they saved money for a bigger navy and built a few more ground units. Axis ground elements in Europe spent time cleaning up the pro-allied neutrals and so on. and getting into position against Russia.

G3 I toyed HARD with invading Canada, it really almost made sense to, but I knew it wouldn’t make me money and I would lose a trn and units to the US eventually.  so… Combat ships and 1 trn Navy went back up to W.G. coast,  1 trn went into Med to get units closer to egy (then later took F. Mdgscr, and other african coast.)  another trn, went south, along africa’s west coast and took territory, - God I WISHED Argentina was a Pro Axis Neutral!!!

All in all, I would do this again and again, it was fun, it worked well, there were tons of options, and it caused my opponent all kinds of strife and tribulation.  ALSO, if your opponent is going heavy pacific in GLOBAL, this is a SERIOUS PLOY for US EAST COAST Invasion.  Even with my opponent going KGF, he had built excess transports, and his navy was only equal to mine, as some elements had gone to Canada.  This was a REAL sleeper, and if he had payed a little less attention, or didn’t have good buys, G3 or G4 could have been a successful EUS capital crush.  Definetely try this out.

The final result of all this action was that I got to make a choice with my navy, either to destroy American fleet, or British fleets as they advanced.  I opted to kill the Americans as for me it made more $ sense,  I cleaned up and made over 70 IPC’s difference  by the time I lost my navy into his, it was an excellent trade.

Note

A weakness I found was that the Russian Navy partivularily by R4 isn’t detroyed and threatens Berlin, be careful.  My russian opponent even built an ACC when he saw my navy go south, it was a btch dealing with it later.

[The Dessert Fox]

The only problem with this is it gives the Soviets time to build their forces and this is the only way the Axis can really win.

[WILD BILL]

This is an interesting strat to say the least. I like having options, and doing things that throw off the enemy. I like to keep my German fleet in tact as long as possible near the Baltic to transport units into Norway/Russia though. You have to fight for Norway for the NO, and to keep the US from building an IC there. The sub build in the Atlantic w/air support is a must for Germany. Couldn’t you keep your German fleet in the north, and use the Yugo IC to aid Italy in the Med. If Italy is able to keep part of its fleet a float, you can add German support ships/subs directly to the Italian fleet. Subs in the Atlantic/Med w/German air can be very deadly (especially because subs can move through the straight if you don’t have control). Don’t get me wrong, I like the thought of helping out w/Gibr & Med. I’m just not sure you can give up the mobility in Baltic early in the game.

[Gargantua]

You’ve got to do what makes the most sense in everygame.  Sometimes you’ll be able to play this.  Othertimes you won’t.

Even the act of GOING to Gibraltar on G2 with 3 transports, and then returning right after and building another unit into your Navy G3, could encompass a BASIC german mediterranean strat, and it’s not a bad idea to consider.

[marechallannes]

Russia ist the laughing third from this strategy.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I like the flexibility in this edition.

Most games i probably will not do this. BUT if i see america is thinking about plopping down five bombers to reach out and kill some japanese this could force them to build in the atlantic.

Thanks for the idea.

[Hobbes]

@MarkVIIIMarc:

I like the flexibility in this edition.

Most games i probably will not do this. BUT if i see america is thinking about plopping down five bombers to reach out and kill some japanese this could force them to build in the atlantic.

Thanks for the idea.

Too bad for the Axis that the Japanese don’t appear on Europe… that would mean that the 5 bombers are heading towards the German fleet ;)

[eindatadog]

I really like the idea of this Med push with the German Fleet, think i’m going to try it out in my next game. Plus thinking about it in the two games i’ve played so far i have not been agressive enough on following up on the additional IPC bonus gained for Germany (amounts to +20 IPC i believe) if all objectives are met.

And i imagine if you are in a position as Germany to claim that extra 20IPC including the french territories IPC that would greatly help with the war effort and cause the US some trouble as it would have less weak contact points to choose from when it does come round to attack through Africa or Europe making the Med and Africa plenty harder to take control of.

I don’t have the game to hand but with the German bonus IPC and the fact by G2 France should have added it’s IPC to Germany, Germany should be making something close to what the US does in it’s war IPC collection, is that correct?

[Hobbes]

@eindatadog:

I don’t have the game to hand but with the German bonus IPC and the fact by G2 France should have added it’s IPC to Germany, Germany should be making something close to what the US does in it’s war IPC collection, is that correct?

G’s production at the end of G1 is 41-39 IPCs, plus the 17 IPCs from France and 5 for an NO, so it’s 60 IPCs and spare change. At the end of G2 the production level won’t move much, unless it attacks Greece or Russia, but it will get the 2nd NO from control of all of France/Benelux/Norway, so it will be 50 IPC and something.  The US wartime production is 65 IPCs.

[eindatadog]

@Hobbes:

G’s production at the end of G1 is 41-39 IPCs, plus the 17 IPCs from France and 5 for an NO, so it’s 60 IPCs and spare change. At the end of G2 the production level won’t move much, unless it attacks Greece or Russia, but it will get the 2nd NO from control of all of France/Benelux/Norway, so it will be 50 IPC and something.  The US wartime production is 65 IPCs.

Okay so not as much as i thought but still a good amount, but surely with the Germans helping in the Med with troops and ships supporting the Italians in Africa that means less IPC for UK and with the use of German Subs denying them even more IPC and strengthening the position in that over all location in preperation for a possible US assault through the Med. Also it goes some way towards weakening the UK financially thus freeing up the Germans to concentrate on the USSR on G3/G4 onwards.

If perhaps this does work i can imagine that even if the eventual push into Russia stalls/slows it will still hold the ability to succesfully repel any US invasion on Europe and the use of strategic bombing on Russian Factory’s to slow production down. And with the IPC gained from bonus’s and acquired IPC from annexed country’s will eventually help Germany to victory at Moscow.

Though we could just ignore all this and just blitz towards Moscow  :-)

Personally though i think this is a clever idea, far better use of the resources and allows stronger cooperation between the Axis powers, weakens UK, punishes USSR into decline albeit a slow one and ensure the US has to make more choices when it comes to war in Africa or Europe and therefore more of a chance to make mistakes.

[Gargantua]

You could always ropa-dope Russia, that’s what I did in my game.

Put units on the eastern front in offensive positions, that although look offensive are really Defensive.

Russia usually backs off and leaves a 1 inf buffer.

If it makes sense like it did for me, attack the buffer intelligently, but if it looks ugly,  Then just DONT attack on Germany 4.  You still get + 5 IPC’s for not being at war, you buy yourself an EXTRA turn against Russia, because likely since you’ve planned for a defence he can’t attack any of your territories, and if he does, you have Defenders advantagee.

No one seems to predict, that G4 moves might not encompass an attack on Russia.  Depending on how Russia’s defense is aligned aswell, you can head north or south.

Coupling that option with a mediterranean strategy, is not necessarily a bad idea.  The only outstanding concern is the Russia navy, but chances are it’s suicide for him to attack you too.

[bugoo]

Assuming the UK pulls back out of africa you’d be better off with italy grabbing gibralter so you can go INTO the med on G2.  Then you can even only send what you need, do an italian strafe on turn 2 against cario and nab it turn 3 with Germany if italy fails.

[Bodeacious]

I played a game of Europe a week ago that is relevant to this discussion. I’ll chuck in a few thoughts as well. I don’t have a map with me, so bare with me.

Germany bought two transports and carrier. Took out entire British navy except the transport next to England for the loss of two sub, one bomber, and one plane. Took Parris leaving the mech and tanks.

England bought men and hit the Italians fleet with what would reach except the tac, which landed in Europe. A carrier with one hit and a cruiser survived.

Italy bought one destroyer. It prepared to take Egypt, took Southern France, activated Bulgaria. Tansported man and tank to Albania, leaving Two destroyers and a Cruiser.

France moved to support the British in the med.

After a few rounds, the med was clear, egypt had quite a few men in it. Iraq had an Italian Minor IC. The Germans took an opportunity to hit an understrength US  contingent supporting three transports and 1 UK transport. Germany hit it, and took Gibraltar (out of reach of a US counterattack). Only lost two subs. From there, the transport went intoo the med. This allowed movement of men and arty into Egypt. The Italians then spenta bit of time buildign a small navy (it already had two additional bomber and one tac bomber, both original planes as well). It eventually had three subs and three detroyers. I figured  combined witht he navy, we can seriously slow own the US using destryer blocking aand at least one crack using subs and all planes.

The The US just ignored the med. The managed to take Western Germany. UK flew it’s planes there. Next go, US built 9 tanks. Germany kicked him out, but similar exchanges occured with the British. Eventually, the very c=successful Western germany Anti Air guns depleted the Luftwaffe, and the Italians had this massive navy sitting, doing nothing, in  the med.

I think if Germany send too much to the med, it really does hinder the defences when the US heads North. That being said, The North African men may be better used heading to Russia.

[Hobbes]

@Gargantua:

If it makes sense like it did for me, attack the buffer intelligently, but if it looks ugly,  Then just DONT attack on Germany 4.  You still get + 5 IPC’s for not being at war, you buy yourself an EXTRA turn against Russia, because likely since you’ve planned for a defence he can’t attack any of your territories, and if he does, you have Defenders advantagee.

Makes sense in Global, but in Europe the Germans don’t get $$$ from not being at war with Russia. :)