@andrewaagamer Thanks!
What am I missing vs. America?
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Trying to fight the Americans just seems like a bad idea. Why would you want to do that?
The Americans like to land in Norway and in Normandy, and if Germany occupies the UK, USA likes to attack that too. It’s good for Germany to hold off and beat back these invasions. If USA is building on both coasts (enough westward to kick Japan’s can), Germany should be able to hold them off for a while I think.
Of course it is good if they can do it. But you must know as well as me that if America spends 50 IPCs (roundabout… or more) on the Atlantic, per turn, Germany cannot match that in ships or planes… and fight Russia, and fight the UK all at the same time. And 50 IPCs is being fairly generous to Germany. If the US should spend all their 82 in the Atlantic… well then, it is only a matter of time for the Germans.
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If America spends all 82 dollars in the Atlantic then I’m a thrilled Japanese player because I remember all the “imbalances” of Pac40, plus America isn’t spending 50 bucks a turn to come kill me!
It does take a bit to hurt America. All I can ever accomplish are hit and run type attacks which are more for stalling America like Gargantua was talking about. The US pacific fleet heads south to take back the DEI for India I land in Alaska pretending to threaten the West Coast.
America lands in Gibralter suck them one square into the Med to fight Italian Destroyers and HOPEFULLY dent their fleet with tons of German air or at least have Germany pay attention and reinforce Italy.
Just is hard to do anything to North America that really hurts them. Then again America has to ship everything they make across the world
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In my last game of global I raped America twice at Gibraltar. Sunk 2 large fleets, through well placed aircraft positions, Holding Morocco or Gibraltar, and having enough loose naval support in the region to support the attack. If you don’t plan for this eventual prospect, then these kinds of oppurtunies won’t present themselves to you. And OF COURSE they make you suffer on other fronts, so it’s got to be worth it to you to do it.
In my game he ended up pulling his fleet right out of the pacific back to the atlantic, through the panama canal. it was US8 before he actually took anything.
Too often American players are trying to get maximum impact in the early game… this causes them to do things like build less combat planes and ships. to try and have “Just enough” defense and spend the rest on transports to make landings.
This is where you make them suffer.
A smart american could does this through Brazil and over to Africa - it’s virtually unstoppable.
Others try to keep their fleet at gibraltar, but if they’re not very careful, and you build enough german planes 1 or 2 a turn, these kinds of oppurtunites become available to you.
I like this quote…
Sorry to be pessimistic here, but I am just looking at this practically: Any intelligent player will keep combat ships with their transports, at all times.
Exactly and since you’ve kept them honest, this has slowed them down. Thank you for proving my point. * The more careful you make America play, the slower their impact on the game *
Another thing to consider, play like the dice are on your side. 1 bomber vs 1 cruiser and 2 transports is an awesome gambit, that seems to come up often enough. Sure you might lose a bmb. But you also might sink 26 IPC’s of units and slow America down.
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Good points Gargantua. I had a game where the Italians managed to stall a sizable American fleet by trading Gibraltar. I have always been a fan of sub buys as any power… assuming the Americans put 2/3 of their income in the Atlantic, that is 50 some ipc’s being spent on navy. The Italians that beat me down in Africa were making 40 ipc’s a turn after objectives. Would a Gibraltar fleet stall combined with most Italian money going into subs and aircraft (subs that can still pass the straight, and be taken as cheap hits) be enough to handle that American fleet, or cause it to retreat? It can be a bitch for them if they need to return home to repair their cap ships because the can’t hold on to that naval base. Just a thought - this assumes the Americans don’t put all money to the Atlantic (which would cause the Japs to run amok anyway), and that the Americans are spending this money on more than combat ships - such as trannies and ground units. Thoughts?
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Has anyone tried canvassing the Atlantic with German subs early on? by the time America goes to war you should have enough ships to buy you at least one or two more turns before they can land.
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Time still is on the allies side. Especially if Russia declares on Japan.A buddy of mine was telling me how he as Russia built up on the coast near Japan then declared on them and conquered Japan in 2 turns because the player thought Russia was building up in case Japan invaded them later on and left almost nothing near Japan.
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Time still is on the allies side. Especially if Russia declares on Japan.A buddy of mine was telling me how he as Russia built up on the coast near Japan then declared on them and conquered Japan in 2 turns because the player thought Russia was building up in case Japan invaded them later on and left almost nothing near Japan.
Russia conquered Japan in 2 turns? I hope you don’t mean the island of Japan since Russia has no transports that can reach the pacific before turn 10. Do you mean Japanese held China? With 18 inf, he conquered the Chinese coast in 2 turns? If Russia stacks the 18 inf in Amur, Japan can easily wipe them out. The only other things that can reach Amur that quickly are a few planes. I doubt 18 inf and a few planes conquered Japan in 2 turns.
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Time still is on the allies side. Especially if Russia declares on Japan.A buddy of mine was telling me how he as Russia built up on the coast near Japan then declared on them and conquered Japan in 2 turns because the player thought Russia was building up in case Japan invaded them later on and left almost nothing near Japan.
Russia conquered Japan in 2 turns? I hope you don’t mean the island of Japan since Russia has no transports that can reach the pacific before turn 10. Do you mean Japanese held China? With 18 inf, he conquered the Chinese coast in 2 turns? If Russia stacks the 18 inf in Amur, Japan can easily wipe them out. The only other things that can reach Amur that quickly are a few planes. I doubt 18 inf and a few planes conquered Japan in 2 turns.
Sorry Russia cut off Japan’s income source and bombed the hell out of them…they pretty much allowed the USA to conquer Japan, much earlier then should have been possible. I didn’t mean that Russia directly conquered Japan only that they deserved the credit for it.
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I have to jump on the delay game here. The USA will often pull themselves out of position in order to get to the battle quicker, this will work to your advantage and make sure you always have traps set with forces come from multiple directions to converge on their transport fleets or landed troops to either sack the reinforcements (transports) or push them off the beaches. Delay, delay, delay is the absolute best advice I think there is against the USA.
In large part it will also depend on how the USA player is playing. If they go all in on one side then make them regret it. This will especially come into play with Japan as players sometimes go all in against Europe. Try to pose your Japanese to hit either the USA OR ANZAC or Indian troops. Harass the USA with subs and landing forces if they ignore you. Also above all else make their allies scream bloody murder for the USA abandoning them. The faster you can take out the USA allies, the less often the USA will try this strategy.
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Too often American players are trying to get maximum impact in the early game… this causes them to do things like build less combat planes and ships. to try and have “Just enough” defense and spend the rest on transports to make landings.
I am not sure what kind of American players you are used to playing with, but those in my typical playgroup, including myself, never play for “maximum impact early”. We know it isn’t worth it. Buying lots of transports and men gets you no where if they just get sunk and wasted. Buying combat ships, especially loaded carriers is priority 1. Yes transports will be built on US1, but their ratio to combat ships will be low.
Others try to keep their fleet at gibraltar, but if they’re not very careful, and you build enough german planes 1 or 2 a turn, these kinds of oppurtunites become available to you.
Possibly, but it depends how many ships he has got there. You might think twice about wasting your Luftwaffe against 2 loaded carriers, a battleship and a destroyer, for instance. Which is a very reasonable placement for turn 3.
And besides, if England still stands, as it usually does, I almost always put my US ships near England. There is safety there and, if coordinated, there will be a sizable Anglo-American fleet in SZ 108, 109 or 119.
I like this quote…
Sorry to be pessimistic here, but I am just looking at this practically: Any intelligent player will keep combat ships with their transports, at all times.
Exactly and since you’ve kept them honest, this has slowed them down. Thank you for proving my point. * The more careful you make America play, the slower their impact on the game *
Slowed them down? Well, I guess in a way. The Americans are not simply building transports and ferring men accross the Atlantic constantly, at the outset of the game. But my question is when they would do that anyway? You don’t typically have to try all that hard to keep enemy transports “honest”. It is a known fact that they are vulnerable in some way at almost all times, so it is only natural to keep defensible ships with them. If all the ships start from the same sea zone it isn’t like they move any slower, or take any longer to get to Germany. Combat ships only slow you down in the sense that you won’t be building 3 more transports a turn, instead you have to buy protection. And that protection can be even better than having another transport anyway. A loaded carrier is the best naval weapon, and not good only for naval combat, but also for invasions. Who generally attacks in an amphibious assault with only infantry and artillery? You typically need some assuring firepower. That is where planes (carriers), battleships and cruisers come in.
I know that you know this Gargantua, but you act like these things (combat naval/air units) should be avoided to achieve speed, however, because they are intrinsically necessary, they will inevitably slow you down. Therefore, it is hard for America to succeed either way they choose to go. I hold that neither is true.
Yes combat units are a certifiable necessity, but speed remains the essentially the same throughout the game, no matter what units you buy. And the Americans don’t have to be overanxious in getting men to the front immediately. As long as the Allies hold on, the US arrives just in time to save the day. Besides, the US typically has 1 or 2 turns to prepare anyway. And if they don’t… well, they just start collecting 82 IPCs right away.Another thing to consider, play like the dice are on your side. 1 bomber vs 1 cruiser and 2 transports is an awesome gambit, that seems to come up often enough. Sure you might lose a bmb. But you also might sink 26 IPC’s of units and slow America down.
I would take this risk any day. But in my experience it doesn’t come up all that often. No offense, but I think my opponents must be better than your opponents, becasue they rarely ever give me opportunities like this… unless there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. But even then they at least recognize it and aren’t surprised to see all their ships get sunk. The better players plan for this stuff and they avoid it. Grouping different fleets together may cause the delay of a turn for America, but once they do, it isn’t like you are going to attack them at that point anyway.
Wasting units (and therefore money and time) is far more detrimental than taking a little extra time to think things through. I know you agree. I am saying that I don’t usually encounter those willing to gamble away their units. So I would not tell other players to EXPECT it from others. Give your opponent the benefit of the doubt that they are quite competent… if they are not, then capitalize on it and maybe that player will learn a lesson.
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I am not sure what kind of American players you are used to playing with, but those in my typical playgroup, including myself, never play for “maximum impact early”. We know it isn’t worth it.
Darth Maximus, site admin and local legend, gave me that oppurtunity last time we played a game and he paid dearly for it as japan. As an opponent he is as good or better than anyone you have ever played with.
Again, someone who knows what they are doing, who is good, who is taking a reasonably educated gamble to improve his prospects of winning through superior speed in achieving game economic balance.
Other games against competent opponents - Cmdr Jennifer, Ender, Tim the Enchanter, similar things have happend. Or they have played it too serious your way, and not even built transports first or 2nd turn as america (Not always in global of course.) As a general rule, this is a detrement.
It is my opinion as well, that a slow America is an Irrelevant America. Of course that doesn’t mean be a fool and waste units, it just means exploit your opponent wherever and whenever you can.
Just remember that there is no logic in thinking or saying “I can never beat perfect American play” Somehow somewhere there is always a way to fight back, hence the point of the game, you just have to discover and make those oppurtunities against your enemies.
Where does your playgroup live? Maybe we can how and play a game?
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Where does your playgroup live? Maybe we can how and play a game?
We all live in Northwest Ohio… Toledo specifically. It seems that not many people on this site live near us, otherwise we’d love to expand our group. You are cordially invited if you ever pass through.
Well, it seems that Darth Maximus made an error. I agree that no transports means absolutely nothing. That is, it means America can do next to nothing with real meaning. I didn’t say we/I don’t build transports early with the US, we simply believe in defense first: more combat ships than transports. It isn’t impossible to fight America, they are fallible and you do have to exploit their mistakes. It just isn’t always easy to see.
It is hard to fight America due to distance and economics. Ultimately, there is no stopping them. You simply have to delay them. Yes, I am reiterating what you have said and what we have been discussing; delay is the only way.
One just has to be wise about it, not wasteful. And it isn’t an easy job if the Americans know what they are doing. If one’s aim in the game is to strike the Americans I find it typically to be a distraction and a diversion for the Axis, one they cannot routinely afford.
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