Are Cruisers ever worth it?

[Praetorian]

The only scenario I have seen cruisers be useful is in the limited build phases of ANZAC and the UK - and even then the cost/benefit just isnt really compelling enough to purchase them.  If you just need to get some rolls into the water, the destroyer and sub are cheaper and bring more benefits to the table.  If you really need a heavy hitter you save up and get the Battleship, which is cheaper and better than 2 cruisers.

I can imagine some very convoluted reasons when a cruiser might be a non-bad buy (I dont think it will ever be optimal) - but those builds are going to be very rare.

So, any fans of the cruiser out there?  Any reason I should rethink my houseruling it to be more effective?

[squirrelfox]

Given the new capital ship repair rules, I think cruisers are a better build in this game.  Sure, they don’t have the same hitting power as a battleship, but you also don’t have to worry about trying to get to a naval base to repair after taking the hit on the battleship (assuming you buy the cruiser/destroyer combo on the same (or maybe separate) turns).  I’m still not sure if the cruisers are really worth what you pay for them (and I like the house rule that’s been suggested elsewhere of giving cruisers AA fire in the opening round), but then, I’m a fan of the cruiser and buy them regardless of whether or not they’re “worth it.”

[oztea]

Cruiser + Destroyer = 2 shots, 2 hits, 5/6 combat power, Anti-sub, bombarment at 3
Battleship = 1 shot, 2 hits, 4/6 combat power, bombardment at 4

Both are 20 IPCs
Both are a good purchase

[Gharen]

It just comes down to personal preference and what the situation calls for.  I personally like the destroyer/cruiser combo cause it puts 2 ships in the water instead of 1.  2 ships can attack 2 different areas as needed instead of just 1.  Saying that, I do try to protect/preserve my capital ships if possible while still being aggressive and taking the fight to the enemy.  Its just a matter of what the individual player wants.  I don’t think cruisers need the AAA opening shot for this new game because of the carrier now being a capital ship.  As for AA50 I could see it being useful.

[Hobbes]

I get one or two for the US since I tend to make buys of all types of ships after it enters war, with the exception of battleships. It’s a decision of either getting them or instead buying a bomber with the same IPCs. The cruiser to increase the defense of the US fleet, the bomber for quick offensive power.

[Praetorian]

@oztea:

Cruiser + Destroyer = 2 shots, 2 hits, 5/6 combat power, Anti-sub, bombarment at 3
Battleship = 1 shot, 2 hits, 4/6 combat power, bombardment at 4

Both are 20 IPCs
Both are a good purchase

I disagree.  The Cruiser+Destroyer purchase is a sub-optimal build specifically because of the inclusion of the Cruiser.  This purchase only looks good on paper - in the actual game it is a poor purchase choice for a number of roles.

Want to get some combat dice into the water?  2 Destroyers is cheaper and, while you downgrade your dice a bit, the extra benefits that destoryers bring with them outweigh the loss of the 3/3 to a 2/2.  Same goes for Subs - downgrade in dice, but they bring unique advatages that offest those crappier dice.  For my plays, when my opponet purchases 2 subs it is a larger problem to deal with than 2 Crusiers.

Want to get some units in the water for a delaying tactic?  Subs or destroyers are a cheaper way to do so (and, again, bring more benefits for their lesser cost).  Same this goes for if you need to split your navy - what you want are DDs and SSs, not CAs.

Want to get a high kill ratio to beef up your navy?  Buy a Battleship.  You get an upgrade to the dice (2 4s is better than 2 3s, obviously).  It costs the same as two cruisers, has at least as good a chance to survive (its upgrade at attk/def offests the 2 shot/turn advantage the cruisers have).  In a straight up fight of one BB vs 2 CAs, the BB wins.  Oh, and the BB has a batter bombard.

Need to go against sub-spam?  Destroyers are the way to go, obviously.  But because of the sub’s sneak attack, a Battleship is also better than 2 cruisers (someone can do the math, but the sub’s sneak attack means that something like 33% of the time a sub will only face 1 cruiser [on the attack] - and thus only face 1 roll of 3.  Against a BB the sub is assured of facing 2 rolls of 4).

Have 20 bucks to spend and want a navy?  Buy a BB or a couple DDs or SSs.  They all fulfill their role better and do so cheaper (or at cost).

[gredert]

All depends on which country you are playing. ANZAC should seldom buy a cruiser, like every 2-3 turns, if only because they happen to have a couple extra bucks, so why not have a better ship. UK needs them if they plan to go with a navy because they need ships to compete, but cant always afford BB, and a destroyer isnt always enough. Japs, I always buy some of them, as mixed with the cheaper ships it gives me nice strong shots to fire while my cheaper ships shield it, but having lots of cash I will seldom have many more of these than I do my capitals, usually ratio of 1 BB : 1 CV : 1.5 Cruiser (do not know that designation lol), so near end game I will have around 6 of the first 2 and 9 cruisers. US is the only country that should have a decent number of these, since to me, the first 3 turns (if war takes that long, which in our games it does) I would build a cruiser and save 5, then that way the turn I come in I have 15 extra IPCs which will buy most of a Battleship.

[WILD BILL]

I seem to buy a ton of DD’s. In this game your constantly using DD to block the enemy (inf of the sea). If you are going defensive air units are my choice because of the scramble rules. Before scramble rules a cruiser was a better deal IMO to get that 3 into your navy, now your tac/ftr get 3’s & 4’s w/o a carrier for def in most cases (lots of AB). If you plan on going island hopping or amphib then cruisers are a great tool. I don’t seem to buy very many, but value the cruisers I start with and put them to good use.

[Commander JayVon]

I tend to use the cruiser/destroyer combination, mostly because of the unit’s ‘heavy hitter’ status, despite it not being a capital ship, it may also be personal preference, since I am a fan of CV warships. I do try to limit my cruiser spending by mixing it up, switching to and from the DD/DD, DD/SS combos.

Balance? I tend to think so. Builds up my navy to support capital ships.

Time is essential though.

[kaufschtick]

No CA buys here, it’s all subs, DDs and the occassional CV. :-)

[dinosaur]

If I am buying cruisers, I have already won the game.  Destroyers are better than cruisers except in one case that only comes up occasionally; attacking an island that can’t scramble aircraft.  Aside from that, destroyers are always a better buy.  Subs can also be a very good buy, such as when you need to buy time to stall the enemy navy.  Please do not infer I am saying you can “sub stall” in this game.

[finnman]

@oztea:

Cruiser + Destroyer = 2 shots, 2 hits, 5/6 combat power, Anti-sub, bombarment at 3
Battleship = 1 shot, 2 hits, 4/6 combat power, bombardment at 4

Both are 20 IPCs
Both are a good purchase

If your spending 20 ipcs ships I prefer to go with three destroyers.
It costs 4 more but you get three ships.

[Funcioneta]

@finnman:

If your spending 20 ipcs ships I prefer to go with three destroyers.
It costs 4 more but you get three ships.

Unless you have only 20 IPCs

Or unless your enemy has 2 or more bbs more than you … then you’ll regret not having more BBs soon or later

You should have at least 1 cruiser in your fleet (and one pathetic tactical bomber, for that matters), you never know when are you going to need it