Guam & Naval Base on Wake?

[kaufschtick]

A friend of mine and myself have been putting this new game through its paces ever since it came out, we’ve played just under 100 hours now, and here’s our latest thoughts on how the Allies should go.

I don’t know if maybe we’re slow learners, and everyone else has already gotten on to this, but in our last game session, we discovered Guam as the key to the Allies, along with a naval base on Wake Island (US 1).

We’ve played through zillions of the J2 & J3 opening attacks, but I will say this up front, that we haven’t yet tried any of the J1 attacks. So maybe this isn’t a good counter to a J1 attack?

First off, we started many games with the Japanese buying 3 transports J1, then we moved to the Japanese buying 2 transports and a minor IC on J1. We found ways for the Allies to block Japanese transports in SZ6 on J2 to some extent by moving the British BB up to Guam and the American DD from the PI up to, I think it’s SZ19, to screen off the PI from transports originating in Japan.

Then we got on to Japanese putting the minor complex down on J1, and the Allies just couldn’t afford to lose the ships early on like that in blocking moves. The Japanese could always opt to go for a J3 attack and sail through the blocks on J2 anyways, leaving those units sitting in the breeze on J3.

Last game session, we tried something I haven’t read yet on any of the forums, although I haven’t really been going through them in the first place. So like I said earlier, it may be what I’m posting here is already widely known by all.

But last game session, we started out with an American naval base going into Wake Island on US1, along with both the US infantry units and the fighter going from the PI to Guam on US1. The entire US fleet, and all of its at start air units go to Wake Island.

The idea is kinda to make Guam like the Japanese use Truk. You get lots of air units on an island with an airbase and it’s pretty tough to root them out. The airbase acts like a force multiplier, so an attacker may have to commit twice the forces to root out a base like that.

Anyway, the whole goal is for the US to get, or to be going after Guam. If they can do that, then they threaten not only Japan, but the whole Asian coastline from Korea all the way down to Vietnam.

If on US1, they have their at start fleet at Wake, a naval base, and the 2 fighters and two dive bombers on Wake plus the 3 bombers, then they have the most options as to what to do on US2. They are in position to possibly counter attack Guam if the Japanese took it (two transports with three infantry and one armor: 1CV w/ 1ftr & 1Tac, 1BB, 1CA, 1SS along with 3 bombers if you want to risk a landing on New Guinea available to clear the SZ), they can move to Australia and SZ54, and they have two routes to attack  Japan if there is an opening there. The fighters from Wake can reach Guam if still held by the US on US2, and the ANZAC fighters can fly up from Queensland on ANZAC 2 as well. This is especially important if the US had to counter attack Guam and were able to retake it on US2. The 4 ANZAC ftrs can fly up from Queensland to bolster the defence after the assault.

The prospect of having a large force of Allied fighters and dive bombers on Guam by turn two is enough to make Japan react to it, one way or the other.

I don’t know if taking Guam on J1 is part of the whole J1 attack thing or not, but if Japan leaves Guam in US hands by the start of US 2, then they are in serious trouble. In that case, if the US can send in the two transports to Guam from Wake on their own, they do, along with every air unit they have, even carrier air. Like I said, the 4 ANZAC ftrs come up too at the end of the Allied turn, and now Japan is looking at Guam with at least 4 land units, 3 US ftrs & 3 tac air, along with 4 ANZAC ftrs. If the US fleet moves to Guam as well, then the Japanese are going to have to mount one super serious naval effort to get at Guam.

From Wake, the US can keep putting in more air to Guam, and ships can reach Guam as well with the naval base being on Wake.

Is taking Wake part of the J1 attack deal? Is taking Guam? The PI, on J1 I mean?

If the Japanese take the PI on J1, and skip Guam, then the ANZAC ftr from Queensland is free to move to Guam…anything to make the Japanese fight for Guam. I would think a J1 attack on the PI would include 2 transports as the US fighter can stay in the land battle. Maybe not, I’ve read that the J1 attack includes a lot of risky fights.

Anyway, from Wake with a naval base, the US are in position to go after Guam and/or keep the pressure on there too; and at the very least force the Japanese to defend it if they take it early on. That’ll tie up Japanese transports and fleet that would otherwise be running amok in the DEI.

The US buys for this game were transports and troops along with air and subs.

We’ve had so many Japanese wins so far it isn’t funny. We played 3 games this past weekend, and didn’t fully realize the value of the naval base buy for Wake on US1 at first. We’ve been playtesting strats into about 6-8 turns to see if we could get on to any type of Allied strat that would keep them in the game. Then we quit and retry another strat.

Once we realized also the 1-2 punch from Wake and ANZAC air moving up from Queensland, and the lightbulb started get real bright (for the Allies). Then we got early US buys away from fleet units and more toward transports, troops, air & subs, and the lightbulb got even brighter yet still.

The whole picture came into view, and we started to see that the US doesn’t necessarily need any more carriers early, as it can us the isl;ands of Wake & hopefully Guam as unsinkable carries. If they have enough air, they can shield ships and transports.

One game, the main portion of the Japanese was off tearing into the DEI as usual. Japan sent most of what was left of the rest of it’s fleet to Guam including 3 transports. I think this game we were into like turn 4 or 5 on. Anyway, Japan took (retook?) Guam, suffering some csualties in the process. I think there were some air units on Guam, and they stayed in the land battle. The Japanese had little, if any air units that could reach the land part of the fight, so they wound up taking Guam, but only had 1 or 2 land units left after the battle.

Anyway, the US attacked from Wake with everything it had, which was mostly it’s at start fleet, but also the bombers came in to help with the clearing of the SZ (land on New Guinea). The fleets wiped each other out, but the SZ was cleared by and large with the aid from the bombers, which the Japanese did not anticipate. The troops landed and took the island with two surviving land units, then the ANZAC fighters flew up from Queensland. The Japanese player realized that he had no other units or transports in range to counter attack his next turn, and the US had two more transports loaded at Wake, with a couple more air units.

The ANZAC fighters kept the US transports alive at Guam, then the two US  transports and air arrived the next turn from Wake. Japan had a large part of each of it’s turns buys tied up with buying units for it’s major complex in Singapore, and couldn’t touch the Americans at Guam the next turn either.

So the US then moved and took Manchuria. Korea was wide open, and we played this game a few more turns before we realized that had the US bought a major IC for Korea, which it took, that Japan would have been in deep trouble. By that point in the game, Japan’s forces had swept through China knocking it out of the game (well, with 4 IPCs sitting on the track), and were no where near Manchuria and Korea. Japan was only held lightly too, with the Japanese having not wanted to pull back air units from Truk yet.

Anyway, we were just happy to have had a game in which Japan didn’t stomp the dog snot out of the Allies!!! :-D

[The Fire Knight]

@kaufschtick:

A friend of mine and myself have been putting this new game through its paces ever since it came out, we’ve played just under 100 hours now, and here’s our latest thoughts on how the Allies should go.

I don’t know if maybe we’re slow learners, and everyone else has already gotten on to this, but in our last game session, we discovered Guam as the key to the Allies, along with a naval base on Wake Island (US 1).

We’ve played through zillions of the J2 & J3 opening attacks, but I will say this up front, that we haven’t yet tried any of the J1 attacks. So maybe this isn’t a good counter to a J1 attack?

First off, we started many games with the Japanese buying 3 transports J1, then we moved to the Japanese buying 2 transports and a minor IC on J1. We found ways for the Allies to block Japanese transports in SZ6 on J2 to some extent by moving the British BB up to Guam and the American DD from the PI up to, I think it’s SZ19, to screen off the PI from transports originating in Japan.

Then we got on to Japanese putting the minor complex down on J1, and the Allies just couldn’t afford to lose the ships early on like that in blocking moves. The Japanese could always opt to go for a J3 attack and sail through the blocks on J2 anyways, leaving those units sitting in the breeze on J3.

Last game session, we tried something I haven’t read yet on any of the forums, although I haven’t really been going through them in the first place. So like I said earlier, it may be what I’m posting here is already widely known by all.

But last game session, we started out with an American naval base going into Wake Island on US1, along with both the US infantry units and the fighter going from the PI to Guam on US1. The entire US fleet, and all of its at start air units go to Wake Island.

The idea is kinda to make Guam like the Japanese use Truk. You get lots of air units on an island with an airbase and it’s pretty tough to root them out. The airbase acts like a force multiplier, so an attacker may have to commit twice the forces to root out a base like that.

Anyway, the whole goal is for the US to get, or to be going after Guam. If they can do that, then they threaten not only Japan, but the whole Asian coastline from Korea all the way down to Vietnam.

If on US1, they have their at start fleet at Wake, a naval base, and the 2 fighters and two dive bombers on Wake plus the 3 bombers, then they have the most options as to what to do on US2. They are in position to possibly counter attack Guam if the Japanese took it (two transports with three infantry and one armor: 1CV w/ 1ftr & 1Tac, 1BB, 1CA, 1SS along with 3 bombers if you want to risk a landing on New Guinea available to clear the SZ), they can move to Australia and SZ54, and they have two routes to attack  Japan if there is an opening there. The fighters from Wake can reach Guam if still held by the US on US2, and the ANZAC fighters can fly up from Queensland on ANZAC 2 as well. This is especially important if the US had to counter attack Guam and were able to retake it on US2. The 4 ANZAC ftrs can fly up from Queensland to bolster the defence after the assault.

The prospect of having a large force of Allied fighters and dive bombers on Guam by turn two is enough to make Japan react to it, one way or the other.

I don’t know if taking Guam on J1 is part of the whole J1 attack thing or not, but if Japan leaves Guam in US hands by the start of US 2, then they are in serious trouble. In that case, if the US can send in the two transports to Guam from Wake on their own, they do, along with every air unit they have, even carrier air. Like I said, the 4 ANZAC ftrs come up too at the end of the Allied turn, and now Japan is looking at Guam with at least 4 land units, 3 US ftrs & 3 tac air, along with 4 ANZAC ftrs. If the US fleet moves to Guam as well, then the Japanese are going to have to mount one super serious naval effort to get at Guam.

From Wake, the US can keep putting in more air to Guam, and ships can reach Guam as well with the naval base being on Wake.

Is taking Wake part of the J1 attack deal?

It’s my opinion, and i think most peoples (although many differ b/c of the many options of the game) that a J1 attack is the best. I don’t know about that whole Guam thing. I’ll look into it, but I usually don’t build air or naval bases, and just use existing ones, which makes the Phillipines and caroline islands very important as the U.S. player. Also, for threatening the mainland, I usually just mass at Hawaii, which can threaten Korea (which Japan should never loose or they are screwed) and the Caroline. If you move to the Caroline from there, then you threaten Korea and Japan again, the Philippines, the mainland and you’ve got a ton of options w/o having to waste ipcs on bases. Japan usually can’t defend home sea zone and the caroline, so it serves the same purpose as Guam with the added bonus of an anti-aircraft gun and not having to spend anything.

[kaufschtick]

@The:

It’s my opinion, and i think most peoples (although many differ b/c of the many options of the game) that a J1 attack is the best. I don’t know about that whole Guam thing. I’ll look into it, but I usually don’t build air or naval bases, and just use existing ones, which makes the Phillipines and caroline islands very important as the U.S. player. Also, for threatening the mainland, I usually just mass at Hawaii, which can threaten Korea (which Japan should never loose or they are screwed) and the Caroline. If you move to the Caroline from there, then you threaten Korea and Japan again, the Philippines, the mainland and you’ve got a ton of options w/o having to waste ipcs on bases.

By making Wake the main US frontline base, you threaten more of the board than from Pearl. Then they have more of a chance to attack where the Japanese aren’t if they want to go that route. My good friend always says, “Hit em’ where they ain’t!” :-)

Wake gives the US more options on turn 2 than Pearl. It will make Guam an issue where as it won’t be from Pearl.

Wake with a naval base will get the US more into the fight on US2. On US 2, Japan has enough to defend both Japan & Truk. From Wake, Japan will now have to consider Guam as well. Now they start getting stretched a little more thin.  :-)

I am guessing that the J1 attack provides for the taking of the PI, but with only 3 J1 transports…I’m thinking it’s going to take 2 of those to get the PI? I’ll have to look into the whole J1 attack thing, see how it works. :-)

@The:

Japan usually can’t defend home sea zone and the caroline, so it serves the same purpose as Guam with the added bonus of an anti-aircraft gun and not having to spend anything.

Yes, and with a naval base on Wake, and its threat for the US to move against Guam, it can give the US even more leverage against the Japanese at Truk. The Japanese are now looking at Truk, Guam and Japan (SZ6) to defend against, as oppsed to just Truk & Japan. :-)

Wake is to the US and Pearl Harbor as SZ54 is to New Zealand. Sure, New Zealand and Pearl are decent bases and well protected from Japanese attack, but they both threaten less.  :-)

If you are like us, and don’t buy many bases, just put a naval base on Wake, then start looking at it like you do now with Pearl. You’ll see that Wake has more access than Pearl, which = more leverage. :-)

Then look at Guam. We never used to until now. The Japanese never took it, the US never used it, it just sat unused and unloved, game after game! :-D

If nobody has seen Guam as a big focus for the Americans, it may be because there has to be a naval base on Wake first. We didn’t realize this until nearly 100 hours of gameplay! Granted, many of those first hours were marred by faulty set up charts and foggy rules, but it seems oh so clear now! :mrgreen:

[Hobbes]

Why doesn’t Japan simply ignore Guam and the US forces there and use all of its fleet to sink the US fleet at Wake on J2?

The US has 1 AC, 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 SS, 1 FTRs and 1 TAC, plus 3 FTR (including the ANZAC one) and 2 TAC that can be scrambled). Japan should be able to bring at least 2 ACs, 2 BBs, 1 CA, 2 DDs, 1 SS, 2 FTRs and 2 TAC (all of them starting in Japan/Carolines), plus any planes stationed on the Carolines (they can land on the Marshalls afterwards) and any bombers in Japan/Carolines.

Afterwards on US2, the US player will still have Guam but its 3 bombers and 1 fighter aren’t enough to hit SZ6 since Japan can scramble planes to deal with the attackers.

And for Japan it is a great deal since they send the initial US fleet to the Pacific bottom without risking losing its own against counterattacks. The US will need to rebuild its fleet from scratch.

[kaufschtick]

@Hobbes:

Why doesn’t Japan simply ignore Guam and the US forces there and use all of its fleet to sink the US fleet at Wake on J2?

Hmmm. In games we’ve been playing, the Japanese have been taking Singapore on J2, then building a major IC there on J3. That starts the clock ticking for India.

If the main Japanese fleet is in Wake, or has set up on J1 to be able to reach Wake, then it can’t be at Singapore on J2, kinda a victory for the British already. I guess in that case, I’d keep the US fleet out of range of the main Japanese fleet around Pearl and wait for the Japanese to move south before commencing to move on Guam. The Japanese can’t be in two places at once. The US fleet can just hang back, and either make the Japanese stick around trying to catch them while building up US air strength (the US does have 3 bombers for an attack on a split Japanese fleet if the opportunity presents itself), in which case the Japanese, again, aren’t pounding on the Brits. If the Japanese get tired of this and move south, then the US starts moving on Guam. Again, the Japanese can’t be in two places at once. :-)

Also, the US have the option of flying in it’s air, plus moving ANZAC air up from Queensland on ANZAC 2. The US doesn’t need fleet at Guam, the main thing is to build up air on Guam. Then the air can cover transports, or fleet later.

If the Japanese move such that they can hit Wake on J2, then the US moves all its air to Wake, leaving the Japanese with an empty net, not being able to hit the air ON Wake. Then that air flies to Guam next turn (US 2).

You still have to play the game, this is a general strategy, not a scripted play by play move. :-)

Now, as I’ve already stated, I don’t know what the J1 attack calls for, maybe the whole IJN moves to the PI to take it, then it is sitting on a naval base for a J2 strike to where ever. That I don’t know. :-)

[Hobbes]

@kaufschtick:

Hmmm. In games we’ve been playing, the Japanese have been taking Singapore on J2, then building a major IC there on J3. That starts the clock ticking for India.

OK, that makes sense for the US to move to Wake if the main body of the IJN is focused on Malaya. However, I can’t think of another reason to move most of the fleet south other than to help in the conquest of India. 1 AC, 1 BB, 1 CA and 1 DD should be more than enough to defend itself from any aerial UK attacks and the remaining UK ships will have to retreat to the corner of the map or be destroyed.

That leaves the main Japanese fleet (as I described above) to sink any US naval movements to Wake or to support an amphibious attack on Guam on J3 in case the US/ANZAC planes get there.

This might be a good idea if the Japanese player is caught unaware and unable to deal with those planes. But when playing Japan I usually take Guam as soon as possible though to prevent US bombers flying from Queensland and hitting J transports off Asia.

[Van_Trump]

On J2 (after a J1 attack) I send two thirds of the IJN to Truk, so USA has to build up their fleet before venturing out.

Having said that the naval base on Wake is an excellent move.
Instead of one japanese DD needed to block attacks on Japan or the mainland Japan now needs 3 DD’s.

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

On J2 (after a J1 attack) I send two thirds of the IJN to Truk, so USA has to build up their fleet before venturing out.

Having said that the naval base on Wake is an excellent move.
Instead of one japanese DD needed to block attacks on Japan or the mainland Japan now needs 3 DD’s.

In the games as we’ve been playing (and we just have our point of view to go on thus far), we haven’t tried any of the J1 attacks so far.

We’ve had game after game go the Japanese way via India falling, and all of them on J2 attacks (mostly), with a couple J3 attacks thrown in there.

With the main part of the Japanese fleet normally tearing into the British and the DEI for the most part of our games, we’ve been struggling to find ways for the US to bring effective pressure against Japan and force the Japanese to respond to the US, thus drawing some of the heat off Britian.

We thought that a naval base on Wake put the US fleet in a much more threatening position on just the second turn of the game. This also seemed to give the US fleet more options than from Pearl, but obviously each game is going to be different, so you still have to play the game. Other than that, we liked what we saw in moving the main US base up to Wake. Not saying you gotta do it, just that it is a good option to keep in mind.

[WILD BILL]

The game I’m in right now I have bought a NB for Wake. My main US force is stationed there, with a DD to block Hawaii from attack from Jap home base. The NB gives you the movement you need to threaten many more Jap tt. The AB on Wake will also allow your island based air units to hit the Jap navy stationed at Caroline (great advantage), as long as you still hold any of the many islands in the nearby sz (Marshal, Gilbert, New Brit, Anz New G). You need to take Marshal, and hold Midway, Johnston &  Hawaii to make sure Japs can’t do the same to you. This alone may force Jap to vacate Caroline. Wake is also still only 3 sz from San Fran, so you can also bring in reinforcements directly from your home base (same as Hawaii).

I tend to send my Anz ftrs to the UK, so they can def tt in Asia that the UK has just taken, b/c UK ftrs can’t.

[Praetorian]

I think its a neat idea - gonna give it a run through on our next play (probably not for a few weeks, sadly).  I too have been looking for a way to  get the US into an offensive posture sooner and this might be the ticket.

[Van_Trump]

Even nastier than Wake is Midway. I was planning to use the Midway naval base when I play usa this Saturday.

With a base in Midway Japan has to keep a huge number of troops stationed in Japan. It’s just too easy for the USA to get into the sea of Japan from Midway.

Then I thought about Japanese counters…OOPS

This threat forces Japan into a very aggressive counter on J1.
Take PI with 2 transports (2 inf 1 art 1 tank) from home fleet + cv from Truk (planes in land battle) + okinawa fleet.
Eliminate UK BB with 3 Bmb + Formosa fighter as usual.
Kill New Britain sub with DD
Kill Hawaii Tr with SS

Take Kwantung, etc… with troops and planes on continent + additional planes from Japan

And then…

Use Truk Trans + 1 inf to take Midway. Also move ENTIRE Japanese home fleet + Truk BB to midway. Put 4 fighters on the 2 cvs for defense. Make sure you have 4 Tac Bomb in Japan.

Build 3 transports + tank and move Manchuria art to Korea.

Now what is US to do? If he attacks Midway fleet it is likely to be mutual wipeout with at least 2 dmged Japanese BB’s surviving. (Dont forget CVs have 2 hits, defend on 2 and fighters can land on Midway)
Can US hold Hawaii? He can if all 4 ANZAC fighters reinf Hawaii.

What if Japan builds a naval base on Midway and now threatens Western US and/or Alaska/BC?

The cost of this variant is that Malaya does not fall on J2. It takes some pressure off India.
After building an Industrial Complex on J2 (FIC?) the pressure is back on. Japan still has  loaded CV, CA, DD and SS to protect Transports from UK fleet (such as it is) or planes (out of range)  as they take the money islands. Dont forget all 4 japanese bombers are in the vicinity as well.

Realize that IF Hawaii falls and is reinforced with Jap fighters Japan doesnt need to take India for 6 cities. Japan just needs Sydney which is conveniently nearby and underdefended.

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

Can US hold Hawaii? He can if all 4 ANZAC fighters reinf Hawaii.

Yeah, I’m thinking from what you’re describing that Pearl has to hold.

@Van_Trump:

Realize that IF Hawaii falls and is reinforced with Jap fighters Japan doesnt need to take India for 6 cities. Japan just needs Sydney which is conveniently nearby and underdefended.

Well, if you can manage to hang on to Pearl with air, that air can be rapidly shifted to Australia, so that would appear to be the way to go.

So that’s what the J1 attack stacks up as, eh?  :-o

Pretty feakin’ nasty sounding if you ask me.  :evil:

One thing I kinda have enjoyed about this game so far, is that everytime we come up with a new type twist or strat for one side or the other, there has always been a counter to be had to it, I sure hope there is a survival plan for the Allies on this one!  :? :|

We’ll have to put a wrench on this one, the J1 attack looks devilish to me!

Should be fun working the problem though!  8-)

@Van_Trump:

Even nastier than Wake is Midway. I was planning to use the Midway naval base when I play usa this Saturday.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. Can’t you sail through SZ6 and into SZ19 from Midway with a naval base, and thus attack Manchuria? I mean, if Japan just has fighters defending Japan and SZ 6 is empty, for example.

[Van_Trump]

Japanese fighters can scramble from Japan even if amphibious assault is on Korea. So USA needs plenty of escorts.

If Japan takes Hawaii and then shifts forces to Australia make sure Japan has plenty of DD’s to screen potential US attacks on Hawaii.

I am pretty sure Hawaii can be held by US. It’s the dual threat of US invasion and Hawaii attack from Midway (after naval base has been built) that makes this so nasty for Japan. It’s a given US will be spending at least one turn building defenders for Western US.

Also, if US is foolish enough to move fleet to Hawaii, 4 Tac bombers from japan can reach (to go with 4 fighters on the CVs).

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

[Hobbes]

@Van_Trump:

Japanese fighters can scramble from Japan even if amphibious assault is on Korea. So USA needs plenty of escorts.

If Japan takes Hawaii and then shifts forces to Australia make sure Japan has plenty of DD’s to screen potential US attacks on Hawaii.

I am pretty sure Hawaii can be held by US. It’s the dual threat of US invasion and Hawaii attack from Midway (after naval base has been built) that makes this so nasty for Japan. It’s a given US will be spending at least one turn building defenders for Western US.

Also, if US is foolish enough to move fleet to Hawaii, 4 Tac bombers from japan can reach (to go with 4 fighters on the CVs).

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

On my J1 attack I occupied Wake on J2 with the Japs and placed the 3 ACs and the 2 BBs there just to threaten the US advance. Midway with a NB is sounding ever better after reading the ideas here.

The Allied counter is to push on Asia as much as possible and prevent Japan from taking all of the DEI by landing all UK fighters in one of the islands, possibly even sending ANZAC transports to reinforce them. And 1 minor IC only produces 3 units: China/UK will be producing at least 7 units per turn.

[kaufschtick]

@Van_Trump:

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

LOL!!! We were thinking the same thing about Wake! :lol:

In the end, what these moves wind up being are good options to keep in mind depending on the what the Japanese player does.

So there is a good move for the Allies, then the Japanese counter with a move of their own…now the ball is back in the Allies court to see if they can volley. :?

@Hobbes:

The Allied counter is to push on Asia as much as possible and prevent Japan from taking all of the DEI by landing all UK fighters in one of the islands, possibly even sending ANZAC transports to reinforce them. And 1 minor IC only produces 3 units: China/UK will be producing at least 7 units per turn.

Exactly where I was turning my attention to, what can the Allies do in the DEI? I was thinking about the option of sending fighters to the islands, but at first though, I figured I’d sound like a lunatic for even mentioning the idea!  :-o What else can the Allies do there though? Massing the fighters on one island is a good idea and one option to try. :-)

J1 attack is pretty wicked though, I must say.

[Van_Trump]

If I’m Japan I lick my lips at the prospect of being able to pick off Allied fighters without inf support.
Don’t forget four Jap bombers + one loaded CV in area.
J2, troops in PI get moved to money islands. Since PI has NB, transports can pick up troops in HongKong and still reach money islands. So each transport is carrying 1 inf + art or armor. Together with air support it makes going after the money islands even juicier.

So if I’m UK or ANZAC player I DO NOT reinf Dutch East Indies with my fighters.

[WILD BILL]

Besides that most games I’ve played you need those UK ftrs to def Burma/India. W/o fighters UK capital is as good as dead. Maybe def E Indies w/Anz ftrs (and inf), but I wouldn’t put those at risk either. If Jap is coming strong you’ve got to bail!!

[Van_Trump]

Well, I tried US NB on Midway.
Jap player reinforced Japan heavily with builds on turn and moved BBs to defend sea zone. Then he built 3 new carriers and landed planes on them. US took Truk but was overwhelmed by counter attack 2 turns later.
By turn 7 he had 3 industries ( he built 3rd because US took one, temporarily, striking from Truk and burning the Tanks just produced.) on mainland and game was over. India never fell but was inevitable with Japanese production. Hawaii and Sydney were more vulnerable anyway.

Bottom line: Japan can build tanks on mainland to replace planes he moved to sea (landing on newly built Carriers).

So Japan can effectively build a loaded carrier for the cost of a carrier + 2 tanks. Japan starts with a surplus of planes he doesn’t need on mainland. The abilility to build tanks on mainland close to front line is unbalancing because it happens too quickly.

This loaded CV discount cannot be overcome when the US is earning roughly the same amount of $. Japan easily out produces the Americans.

Will try house rules of no new Industries on mainland for Japan next time. (as mentioned in “core problem” thread)

[WILD BILL]

I wouldn’t go to house rules as an option. Its a tough time for the allies, but you have to counter. If they build carriers, try building a bunch of subs. Their cheap to take hits, almost 3 to 1 cost of a carrier to dodge bullets. If you attack chances are you can ding the carriers and take out DD’s, and your allies can finish the job before Jap can fix them. Try to set up 3 fleets, all similar so if they attack one, you can counter a weakened Jap fleet with the other 2 before they repair. As for the Asian ground battle 3 IC would be tough. I’ve seen 2 and that was a bitch. It is easier for the UK if Jap has air, because its hard for them to protect newly taken tt. If they are dropping that much $ in tanks though ($6 a pop) like $40-$50 ipc they can’t be putting to many DD’ or other cheap ships into their navy making it more vulnerable IMO.