Escort service

[Battlingmaxo]

Didnt mean to stir up a hornets nest here. I just thought I was asking an obvious and simple question.

[atarihuana]

it is honest! man, escorts for counting points, serving beer… jeez who wouldnt play AA then…

[LuckyDay]

@Craig:

Well. I don’t remember this as a rule during playtesting.  I remember discussing it, but I never liked it and fought against it.

Aren’t those conflicting statements?  :-o

@Imperious:

If its not in the out-of-box rule book, then common people wont play with them.

who plays with common people?.. certainly not the dozen people here…

[TimTheEnchanter]

@Adlertag:

@Craig:

It didn’t make the OotB rules because of my (and others) dislike for it.  There were others that strongly wanted it.  I didn’t (and still don’t) think that this is the way to fix the SBR rules.

It doesn’t fit the level of the game, unlike the level of A&A Europe and Pacific.

Craig

You are the reason this game is broken ? Man I will smite you 3 times every day. Now I better understand why you are not a playtester for A&A 1942 ed. Totally useless.

Quite a jump to conclusions without bothering to find out if he suggested a DIFFERENT way to deal with it, Dontcha think?

BTW, who changed the thread title.  the original one was perfect - it got a whole lot of us to read the topic and (for those who knew about it) to discuss it, it was funny as hell, but it still made sense when you read the question.

The new title doesn’t even make sense.

[Imperious Leader]

title was fixed. typo.

[Battlingmaxo]

sorry to digress but I find it funny/ironic that the title to my thread requires censoring/editing when there are constant advertisements on the right hand side of this website for russian beauties and Tatiana from Minsk is only a phone call away!!!

[Imperious Leader]

I only see “space project” whatever that is.

[Adlertag]

If you had to change it, why “Air Service” ? Why not “Escort fighters” like in the rules from A&A E and P. ?

[DarthMaximus]

Thread locked.

[Adlertag]

@DarthMaximus:

Thread locked.

funny, I can post in a locked thread

[Battlingmaxo]

MOVED: escort service
« on: Today at 10:00:03 am »

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This topic has been moved to the Moderator Forum

Is this like a Bizzarro World for wayward threads because I found this in AA 1942 Ed. ???

Or is this the PG-13 forum as some of the posts have been removed?

[Battlingmaxo]

@Craig:

@Battlemaxo:

Why not? Is there that much difference between theatre and global?

Actually, it is a level of complexity thing.  AA50 is still a basic enough game that the escorting of bombers and defending interceptors is outside of its simple structure.

I’m not quite following you here…… does this mean AAP and AAE are more complex than AA50 because of of convoy routes/zones and aircraft/naval bases?  I would think each game in the series should build on the previous edition.

[Adlertag]

Even in this scale, the game could use convoy zones, escort and intercepting fighters, and be free to attack any neutral. This would not make the game more complex than Techs, special China rules and NO’s do to Anniversary ed. Now I must wait 8 hours to smite you again.

[Battlingmaxo]

Here we go again!

[Romulus]

Europe and Pacific have the same rule for units of A&A. For example fighters move 4, attack at 3 and defend at 4. Bombers move 6, attack at 4 and defend at 1. Ships move of two and have same attack values of Classic. Tanks move of two and they may blitz the same way he tanks do in A&A (and in Revised) without considering the level of the game.
DD and artillery are not present in Classic, they have been introduced in Europe, and then have been used also in Revised. So for the great part the rules are almost the same.

If we speak of convoy zones and strategic bombing escort, however, we have to consider the different scale or level of the game? This is inconsistent.
First because A&A have no scale. There is no time scale, no terrain scale and no units scale. A infantry miniature is “a infantry”, it is not a division, or an army, or a squad. Is a generic unit of infantry. A turn is a turn it is not a day, a month, a year or the entire conflict. Territories are defined without any consideration of terrain and movement. (other games thet uses territories have few great territories in plain zones and a lot of small territories in mountainous zones)
Second because there are rules that are already used in Pacific and in Revised without any scaling. Tanks for example are the same in Classic and in Europe that have different scales. The paradox is that Classic and Revised (that are at the same “level” uses different rules for tanks defense value… why?

I think that strategic bombing with escort rules is a better way of modeling air operations (the need for having a base for escort fighters for example, the need to deploy fighters in defence of the IC is another example). Moreover, convoy zone are a really interesting way of increasing interest in sea battles.

[squirecam]

@Romulus:

I think that strategic bombing with escort rules is a better way of modeling air operations (the need for having a base for escort fighters for example, the need to deploy fighters in defence of the IC is another example). Moreover, convoy zone are a really interesting way of increasing interest in sea battles.

The Gencon/Origins tournaments are going to use the CAP rule. Since Larry usually attends Gencon, I will ask him about an official “LHTR” for Anniversary, and the inclusion of this rule in them. I’d like to see it an “official” LHTR type rule rather than an optional rule.

It does neatly solve the bombing problem.

[axis_roll]

@squirecam:

@Romulus:

I think that strategic bombing with escort rules is a better way of modeling air operations (the need for having a base for escort fighters for example, the need to deploy fighters in defence of the IC is another example). Moreover, convoy zone are a really interesting way of increasing interest in sea battles.

The Gencon/Origins tournaments are going to use the CAP rule. Since Larry usually attends Gencon, I will ask him about an official “LHTR” for Anniversary, and the inclusion of this rule in them. I’d like to see it an “official” LHTR type rule rather than an optional rule.

It does neatly solve the bombing problem.

Agree 100%

I agree that SBRs can become too much of a factor without an easier way to limit them (for either side!)
Bombers are cheaper AND more effective in AA50 than in any previous incarnation of A&A (and I am not thinking about games with Tech)

[squirecam]

@axis_roll:

@squirecam:

@Romulus:

I think that strategic bombing with escort rules is a better way of modeling air operations (the need for having a base for escort fighters for example, the need to deploy fighters in defence of the IC is another example). Moreover, convoy zone are a really interesting way of increasing interest in sea battles.

The Gencon/Origins tournaments are going to use the CAP rule. Since Larry usually attends Gencon, I will ask him about an official “LHTR” for Anniversary, and the inclusion of this rule in them. I’d like to see it an “official” LHTR type rule rather than an optional rule.

It does neatly solve the bombing problem.

Agree 100%

I agree that SBRs can become too much of a factor without an easier way to limit them (for either side!)
Bombers are cheaper AND more effective in AA50 than in any previous incarnation of A&A (and I am not thinking about games with Tech)

Right.

There are 3 ways to “counter” bombing.

1. Technology (random, but also can make bombing even stronger with Heavys and LRA)
2. Objectives (by giving Germany more IPC, allowing them to repair and still build max units
3. The CAP rule

The only one of these that “fixes” the basic game (no tech/obj) is the CAP rule. And fixes #1 and #2 arent guaranteed to help, since tech is random and even with more income the Allies get benefits too.

I hope Triple A includes this in the next release. I also hope at Gencon Larry can be convinced to make a “LHTR” that includes the CAP rule (non-optional).

[Adlertag]

what is the CAP rule ?

[squirecam]

@Adlertag:

what is the CAP rule ?

Fighter Escorts and Interceptors: Fighters can participate in strategic bombing raids. Attacking fighters may escort and protect the bombers, and they can originate from any territory, range permitting. Any or all defending fighters based in a territory that is strategically bombed can participate in the defense of the industrial complex. The number of fighters that will defend is decided after the attacker’s Combat Movement phase is completed and before the Combat phase begins.

After antiaircraft fire is resolved against the attacking air units, if there are any defending fighters an air battle occurs between the attacking and defending air units. This combat is resolved in the same way as a normal combat, with a few exceptions. The fighters have an attack value of 1 (2 if the attacker has the Jet Power research breakthrough) and a defense value of 2, and the bombers have no attack value. In addition, the combat lasts for only one round. After the battle, any surviving bombers proceed to carry out the raid as normal. Fighters participating as either an escort or a defender cannot participate in other battles during that turn. Defending interceptors must return to their original territory. If that territory is captured, the fighters may move one space to land in a friendly territory or on a friendly aircraft carrier. This movement occurs after all of the attacker’s combats have been resolved and before the attacker’s Noncombat Move phase begins. If no such landing space is available, the fighters are lost.