Plastic Playing Pieces

[Krieghund]

He doesn’t want one set for $500.  He wants ten sets!

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Bierwagen:

I’m in!

I too spent the big bucks on “The War Game” pieces.  They are quite nicely done, unfortunately not to the same scale – and my US player refused to play with Tigers.

Perhaps the folks over at FieldMarshalGames are willing to stick thier necks out and get some nicely sculptured pieces made.

Anyone know Jeff well enough to get him to tell us what landmines to avoid when starting down this path of creating custom scultpures?

I have read this entire thread.  I have been moving towards making this product since the release of COMBAT DICE.  It will take about 6 months to get the product to market.  Others may do it but Field Marshal Games is committed to doing it right… the first time … for the AAA community  (Whatever the cost).  We have been working on another project (TOP SECRET) but I think because of this tread we are going to push the pieces project ahead now.

The issues we have are the following:

a) We need to make all the parts at the same time (Cheaper that way), including base set and the “expansion pieces”.  We need the community to agree on a set WITHIN REASON. The bigger it is the greater the cost.

b) We need sculpts!  We can up-scale or down scale any part but we need sculpts.  If we have these we can move forward faster.  We are willing to give a FREE or discounted set to anyone who aids with this.

c) We need legal council; Will our company be sued into non-existence if we make these?  Any professional legal council from the community would be appreciated.

Those of you that know us, are aware we are just fans who make cool stuff…  not a huge company making lots of $$$.  The end product is something we are happy to use on our own game tables, and breaking even is OK!

Please contact me Jeremy [at] Field Marshal games (e-mail) if you can aid in any of the above and if you would be interested in getting a set OR even placing a pre-order to get this moving.

Thanks

[TG Moses VI]

Oh my god!  I need to change my pants.

[HannibalSW]

That sounds pretty sweet.

[tin_snips]

i think the base set just needs to cover the re-modeling of all of the pieces that come with AA50. also keeping in mind that some people don’t have some of the other games (AAE, AAB, etc) to pull pieces from

[Adlertag]

If I place a pre-order, must I pay the bucks now ?

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Adlertag:

If I place a pre-order, must I pay the bucks now ?

We will not start taking money until we have everything ready to go fro production.  I will start ANOTHER thread about this project when the time comes.  For now we just need to address the issues I stated above.  Any help would be great.

[murraymoto]

@FieldMarshalGames:

c) We need legal council; Will our company be sued into non-existence if we make these?  Any professional legal council from the community would be appreciated.

Excellent.

I believe that I’ve read a post from Imperial Leader that states that if you are making your own sculpts, ie, not simply copying, that you would be completely in the clear legally.  And not that I’m wanting to confirm/deny IL’s legal counsel status, but from a layman’s point of view (that’d be me), if you make your own sculpts, there should be no problem in making/selling your own pieces.
–maybe you want to change the name slightly or don’t use AH’s logos and such…

[TG Moses VI]

I agree with Tin Snips.  The best way to start is to recreate every sculpt in A&A:50.  No extra fantasy units.  Lets just stick with the basics.

The hardest part will be getting the sculpts made.  I can’t offer any advice on this.  I believe Table Tactics is the only person currently involved in sculpting new models.

[Imperious Leader]

Anybody can make pieces and everybody does.

make piece sets with table tactics would be a good idea and split the costs and rewards.

Start with pieces that work as all the various technology pieces for the AA games:

Mech infantry, heavy bombers, jet fighters, super subs, rockets,etc…

and also make the missing AA50 pieces for Italy ( Naval) plus other new sculpts that people complain about

Allied Artillery
Japanese Battleship ( kongo class)
etc.

Make new factory pieces in national colors and AA guns in national colors? perhaps less important

package it with rules and a possible scenario as an add on to the game ( just don’t mention it by name) or optional rules.

[losttribe04]

Comment about legal issues:

A good friend of mine is a lawyer that specilizes in business / corperate law.  When I presented our case (pun intended) he said look at what the company Mad Catz does with Nintendo Wii, Microsoft X-Box 360 and Sony Playstation.

They simply make “tools” that work with those systems that the owning companies do not.  They don’t pretend to the official company they got there logo’s stamped all over their products.

He also said the same goes for aftermarket parts for vehicles.  He reminded me of what my company did this year.  My company wanted to buy fog light upgrades for 6 new Toyota Tundra’s we bought this year.  Toyota doesn’t make any such kit.  You get it from the factory with or without them.

We purchased aftermarket kits through a local Toyota dealer and they installed them.

Long post short:  You / we just can’t come across like we are the official Avalon Hill / WOTC / Harris Game Design groups.  We have to clearly state that we are (or Field Marshal Games in this case) is who they are and are not pretending to be another legal entity.

LT

[FieldMarshalGames]

@LT04:

Comment about legal issues:

A good friend of mine is a lawyer that specilizes in business / corperate law.  When I presented our case (pun intended) he said look at what the company Mad Catz does with Nintendo Wii, Microsoft X-Box 360 and Sony Playstation.

They simply make “tools” that work with those systems that the owning companies do not.  They don’t pretend to the official company they got there logo’s stamped all over their products.

He also said the same goes for aftermarket parts for vehicles.  He reminded me of what my company did this year.  My company wanted to buy fog light upgrades for 6 new Toyota Tundra’s we bought this year.  Toyota doesn’t make any such kit.  You get it from the factory with or without them.

We purchased aftermarket kits through a local Toyota dealer and they installed them.

Long post short:  You / we just can’t come across like we are the official Avalon Hill / WOTC / Harris Game Design groups.  We have to clearly state that we are (or Field Marshal Games in this case) is who they are and are not pretending to be another legal entity.

LT

Thanks for looking into this for us.  It was a big help.  Being “the little guy” I dont want to kill this company on one product.  I have also been advised that you can use the term “for (Enter product here)” and you are safe.

Also you can’t use any copyright LOGOs, art work etc…

My mind is being set at ease.  I am excited to get moving on this.

[Imperious Leader]

You have to state:

“This is not an authorized Axis and Allies expansion.”

And also don’t mention AA or any of its rules except very briefly.

Many official company’s make AA products for many years.

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

As for me the pieces i am most interested in and will pay for are the following  (all in AA50 Colors of course)
  Italy Navy/Air force/ Artillery
and these additional pieces for each country.
  Half tracks (mechanized infantry)
  Blockhouses (or some other shore defense unit)
  Troop Transport Plane (used for paratroopers, Bombers shouldn’t and didn’t carry paratroopers)

Other Notable pieces I would love to buy, but are perhaps slightly less marketable so you would probably produce in a smaller quantity
Soviet Navy
Nation specific allied destroyers and artillery
Technology Pieces like Jets, rockets, ect. (nation specific would be nice)
Blue French Pieces may not be a bad idea either, but perhaps you should poll this one first.

I would suggest that you sell the product in two sets.
Set #1 - Includes Italy Pieces (and any other sculpts you make for existing countries like new allied destroyers & artillery)
Set #2 - Expansion Pack for peoples own Creations which would include everything else you decide to make, presumibally the most commonly added pieces mentioned above as well as pieces for technology upgrades.

Your product will have the most market appeal if you create nation specific pieces in AA50 colors.

[tin_snips]

i still think set one should be re-casting the original pieces in a better quality, and bolstering the number of a few (i.e. italian navy). the whole point of this was because many people were not happy with the quality of the current pieces that came with the game

set two should consist of your pieces such as mechanised infantry, jet fighters, and so forth

[Adlertag]

I think there is a market for blue french pieces too, because there is some games out there, like The Struggle and The Wargame, and they dont come with french pieces. You have to purchase your pieces from other companies. So there are a market.

[Black Fox]

First I would like to thank the guys at Field Marshal for taking on this project.  Please count me in for one set.

Well I posted a list of units I would like to have.  It’s something that I created a while back so there are no Italians.  It is a wish list of course and I don’t expect to ever get all of these pieces.  In all reality I’d be lucky to get one of each type.  So I listed my favorite choices for each category on the top of each list.

Three units that I really would like to see are Mechanized Infantry (represented primarly by halftracks), Medium bombers and surface attack (Dive Bombers).  For easy of identification I would like medium bombers to be represented by 2 engine and heavy bombers be represented by 4 engines.  Last surface attack aircraft.  In other words, aircraft who’s primary role was to attack ground or naval units such as dive & torpedo bombers and attack aircraft.

One idea about making sculpture is that if there is already a suitable piece out there, just make a copy then modify a little so you don’t have to worry about copy rights.  Just a thought.

Once again, thanks for taking this on.

TANKS
Russians
T-34/76
T-34/85
German
Panzer 3J
Panther A&D
Tiger
British
Cromwell IV
Valentine Mk III
Churchill Mk VII
U.S.A
Sherman M4A1
Stuart M5
Japan
Shinhoto Chi Ha
Ha-Go Type 95

MECHANIZED INFANTRY (Primarily represented by halftracks)
Russians
SU-57
M-17
Germany
SdKfz 250/1 Alt
SdKfz 251/D1
British
Universal Carrier Mk IV
M5A1
U.S.A
M-3
Japan
Type 4 Ka-Tsu
Type 1 Ho-Ha

ARTILLERY
Russians
ZiS-2 57mm
ZiS-3 67.2mm
German
PAK 40 75mm
PAK 43 88 mm
British
6 Pounder 57 mm
BL 5.5
U.S.A
M-1 57mm
M-2 105 mm
Japan
Type 1 47 mm Anti-Tank Gun
Type 94 75 mm Mountain Gun

FIGHTERS
Russians
Yak-9T
IL-2
Germany
ME-109
FW-190
British
Spitfire
Hurricane
Fairey Firefly (Navy)
U.S.A
P-51D
P-47
P-40
P-38
F6F (Navy)
Japan
KI-44
Zero(Navy)

Dive/Torpedo/attack
Russians
Il-2 Shturmovik
Germany
Stuka
British
A-31 Vengeance
Hawker Typhoon
U.S.A
SBD Dauntless
Japan
Aichi DA3 Val

MEDIUM BOMBERS (represented by two engine bombers)
Russians
Petlyakov Pe-2
Tupolev Tu-2
Germany
Heinkel He 111
Dornier Do 217
Junkers Ju 88
Junkers Ju 87 Stuka
British
Vickers Wellington
Bristol Beaufort
U.S.A
B-25
A-26
Japan
GM4 Betty
Nell

HEAVY BOMBERS (represented by four engine bombers)
Russians
TB-3
Tu-4 (B-29)
Germany
Junkers Ju 290
Junkers Ju 390
British
Lancaster
Manchester
Halifax
U.S.A
B-17
B-24
B-29
Japan
Mitsubishi Ki-21 Sally
Nakajima G10N

BATTLESHIPS
Russians
Vanamoinen
Arkhangelsk
Germany
Bismark class
Sharnhorst
Lutzow
Graff Spee
British
Hood
King George V
Nelson
Prince of Wales
U.S.A
Iowa
South Dakota
Arizona
Japan
Yamato
Kongo
Nagato
Ise
Huso

CARRIERS
Germany
Graff Zeplin
British
Ark Royal
Eagle
Implacable
Victorious
U.S.A
Yorktown
Enterprise
Essex
Japan
Kaga
Akagi
Shokaku
Ryuzyo

CRUISERS
Russians
Kirov
Markarov
Krasnikakaz
Germany
Prinz Eugen
Nurnburg
Lepzig
Lutzow
British
Sussex
Ajax
Belfast
Southhampton
Cumberland
Suffolk
U.S.A
Portland
Atlanta
Cleavland
Baltimaore
Japan
Kako
Atago
Ahigara
Isuzu
Kuma

DESTROYERS
Russians
Opitni
Gromki
Lennengrad
Germany
Beitzen
Mowe
Narvik
Maass class
British
C-Class
Cambelltown
Cossack
Hotspur
Narvak
Hunt
U.S.A
Fletcher
Gearing
Allen Summers
Mahan
Gridley
Japan
Kagero
Asashio
Hubuki
Kuri

SUBMARINES
Russians
K-Class
P-Class
V-Class
Germany
U-boat Type VII
U-boat Type IX
British
S-Class
T-Class
U-Class
V-Class
U.S.A
Gato
Balao
S-Class
Pike
Japan
I-15
I-1
I-53

CARGO
Russians
Isar
Neva
Smolensk
Germany
Altmark class
Erwin Wassner
Weichsel
British
Bacchus
Reliant
Abbydale
U.S.A
Liberty
Victory
Japan
Kamikaw Maru

[Black Fox]

One other thought.  If it becomes too expensive to make all of these then I would concentrate on units that you can’t already get from the other A&A games.  Units such as mechanized infantry, cruisers and so on.  Also let’s say someone wants naval aircraft. (You only really need them for the US & Japan) Well you can simply add P-51 & KI-44 to represent land base aircraft.  But if you want to throw one in for the British you can give them a Fairey Firefly. Of if you want to add ground attack aircraft, you add one for every nation except Germany since they already have a Stuka.  Anyway, I’m sure you get the point.  I hope this helps.

[tin_snips]

@Black:

One other thought.  If it becomes too expensive to make all of these then I would concentrate on units that you can’t already get from the other A&A games.

i don’t agree. they need to be released in batches. first batch, standard units. focuse on the non-standard ones later. the only reason i state this again is because a large amount of people were dissatisfied with the quality of the pieces in AA50, and it isn’t possible to order replacements directly from the makers of the game to bolster the already low numbers for some nations

the first batch should just consist of the same amount of units for each nation, the number of each unit type voted upon. so, for examples sake, 20 infantry, 15 tanks, 15 fighters, and so forth in country-specific molds also voted upon

once this first batch is a success, and if there’s plenty sold so it’s worth FMG’s time and effort to make a second, then you can worry about your additional non-standard molds such as mechanised infantry. i think it’s fair to keep in mind that some people don’t own every game, or just don’t want to chop and change their other A&A’s to make up the unit count

[crsluggo]

@Black:

Germany
Lutzow
Graf Spee

It should be noted that these are sister ships. The Lutzow(originally Deutschland) was the first in the class of panzerschiff (armored ship). She was followed by the Scheer & the Graf Spee