All fair points. I look forward to your upcoming house rule releases!
AARe : question about rockets, jet fighters and long range aircraft
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Suppose US gets rockets and long range aircraft, whereas Germany has jet fighters.
US Turn, there is a US AA at London, which send a rocket at Berlin where 4 Jet Fighters and one AA are defending.
More over, US player sends one bomber with 5 fighters to escort.
According to the Long Range Aircraft rule, the four first escort fighters neutralize the four German Jet Fighters. Thus, the US bomber can not be intercepted and moreover the last fighter protects the bomber from the AAgun (giving him one chance over two to escape if the AAgun hits him).
But what about the rocket ? Can the Jet Fighters also intercept the rocket or are they neutralized by the escort fighters, making the rocket sure to hit ?
Yoshi
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I think, and it’s my opinion, that the Rocket fires during the pre-combat phase and thus, yes, the defending jets can defend against it.
Could be wrong though.
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Suppose US gets rockets and long range aircraft, whereas Germany has jet fighters.
US Turn, there is a US AA at London, which send a rocket at Berlin where 4 Jet Fighters and one AA are defending.
More over, US player sends one bomber with 5 fighters to escort.
According to the Long Range Aircraft rule, the four first escort fighters neutralize the four German Jet Fighters. Thus, the US bomber can not be intercepted and moreover the last fighter protects the bomber from the AAgun (giving him one chance over two to escape if the AAgun hits him).
But what about the rocket ? Can the Jet Fighters also intercept the rocket or are they neutralized by the escort fighters, making the rocket sure to hit ?
Yoshi
Good question. Lots of TECH dollars invested in that scenario :)… better make sure we get it right.
Actually if you read the rules very carefully, I think the answer is in there:
@A&ARe:
Under Jet Fighters Tech.
-Your JET FTRs gain the ability to “intercept” incoming BMBRs on SBR missions, Rocket Attacks and FTRs on Kamikaze missions. For EACH JET FTR in the territory undergoing SBR, Rocket or Kamikaze Attack, you may roll a single die at 1, to “intercept” (ie. immediately destroy) an incoming SBR BMBR, Rocket or Kamikaze FTR.
This occurs in the Conduct Opening Fire phase, after any antiaircraft gun fire, if present.
You may only intercept SBR BMBRs, Rockets or Kamikaze FTRs attacking the territory, but not those which are simply flying over. In the case of simultaneous Rocket and SBR attacks, the Attacker chooses casualties. Your FTRs are still able to defend against regular attacks this TURN.
First, the RED highlight shows that the escorts can affect both SBRs AND Rockets on the same turn.
Then there is Anti-aircraft fire. Escorts can protect the bomber as you describe (rolling another dice to see this “outcome” of the bomber being hit). If there were less escorts, you could have hits so you would tally these to be applied later.
Next what is in BLUE happens next:
For EACH JET FTR in the territory undergoing SBR, Rocket or Kamikaze Attack, you may roll a single die at 1, to “intercept” (ie. immediately destroy) an incoming SBR BMBR, Rocket or Kamikaze FTR.So the FTRS do shoot, but they can only hit a rocket [or the bomber]. As indicated by the BROWN text, the attacker gets to choose the loss. Your escort ftrs protect the bomber from the Jets, so they can only hit the rocket at this point.
Some roll outcome examples might help clear this up.
(Given the situation and numbers you provided)
Example 1.
AA gun fires (1 shot at one bomber). It’s a miss.
Next the 4 German jet ftrs get to shoot at the rocket. 4@1. No hits.
The bomber and rocket get to roll for damage inflicted.
Example 2.
AA gun fires (1 shot at one bomber). It’s a hit.
Next the 4 German jet ftrs get to shoot at the rocket. 4@1. No hits.
Attacker gets to choose how to apply the hit. Most likely, they will lose the rocket (don’t cost anything)
The bomber gets to roll for damage inflicted.
Example 3.
AA gun fires (1 shot at one bomber). It’s a hit.
Next the 4 German jet ftrs get to shoot at the rocket. 4@1. 1 hits.
No damage would be inflicted (2 for 5, the Germans got lucky)
Attacker gets to choose how to apply the hits. Well not much choice here. Lose the rocket and then For each SBR BMBR that is hit, another die must be rolled, with a 1,2 or 3 resulting in destruction of the BMBR, and a 4,5, or 6 allowing the BMBR to retreat.
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Example 3.
AA gun fires (1 shot at one bomber). It’s a hit.
Next the 4 German jet ftrs get to shoot at the rocket. 4@1. 1 hits.
No damage would be inflicted (2 for 5, the Germans got lucky)
Attacker gets to choose how to apply the hits. Well not much choice here. Lose the rocket and then For each SBR BMBR that is hit, another die must be rolled, with a 1,2 or 3 resulting in destruction of the BMBR, and a 4,5, or 6 allowing the BMBR to retreat.
There is something I do not understand on this example. As there are 5 US escorts fighters, the interceptors can not fire against the bomber. Moreover, AAgun can not intercept rockets (except with radar, but here we are looking to the german player). Thus, I think there are two differents things:
First, the AAgun try to kill the bomber. If it hits, we look at the partial protection given by the escort.
Then, the interceptors try to kill the rocket. They have 4@1 to do this. One or more hit destroy the rocket, but if you have two hits you cannot kill the bomber.
Otherwise, this example could happen :
Example 4
AAgun fires and misses
Interceptors fires 4@1 and get two hits !
The attacker has to choice who is killed : one for the rocket, and one for the bomber. But with long range aircraft tech, this should not be the case :s
4. Long Range Aircraft
-Your FTRs move 6. Your BMBRs move 8.
-For SUB Detection Rolls, your AIR Modifier now becomes +2 (instead of +1)
-Your LRA FTRs can now “escort” BMBRs on SBR missions. Escorts “neutralize” any enemy “Interceptors” (Enemy FTRs with JP) in the SBR territory on a 1:1 basis (meaning that each “neutralized” Interceptor does not fire it’s @1 shot against an SBR BMBR). If there are more Escorts than Interceptors in an SBR territory, SBR BMBRs gain partial AA protection. For each SBR BMBR that is hit, there is no SBR damage. However, another die must be rolled, with a 1,2 or 3 resulting in destruction of the BMBR, and a 4,5, or 6 allowing the BMBR to retreat. Escorts are not subject to AAGun fire in the SBR territory, though are still subject to any AA they fly over on the way.Am I right ?
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If you got the impression that two Jet rocket interception ‘hits’ could kill the bomber, then I misled you.
your example 4 can ONLY remove the rocket. The only way a BB can be lost in your scenario is if BOTH the AA gun hits and at least one Jet rocket interception hits… and then only if you roll a 1,2 or 3 on an additional outcome roll.
Remember, the Escorts (if more than the defending intercepting Jets) can not totally shield the bomber from the AA fire. It is however, greatly reduced to a 1 in 6 shot and then a 50/50 AFTER the 1 in 6 has hit. That’s pretty low odds.
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ok, I see.
I have again one question :wink:
If the AAGun hits and the interceptors do not hit anything, can the attacker choose the rocket as causualty ?
I would say no, but it is to be sure
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ok, I see.
I have again one question :wink:
If the AAGun hits and the interceptors do not hit anything, can the attacker choose the rocket as causualty ?
I would say no, but it is to be sure
@AARe:
In the case of simultaneous Rocket and SBR attacks, the Attacker chooses casualties.
Under this wording, I would say the rocket can be lost instead of the bomber being subject to either destruction / withdrawal
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But isn’t this choice only for the jet fighters hits ?
Otherwise, if the defense player has 1 jet fighter and 1 AAGun (say attacker does not have Long Range Air Craft tech, but he got Rockets tech), then the bomber would be more protected that if the defense wouldn’t have jet power (2 hits@1 needed to kill the bomber).
Thank you for the answers. I know that this is a very special case, but I encountered this point (of the beginning of the thread) in a friend game.
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But isn’t this choice only for the jet fighters hits ?
no, jet ftrs can intercept Rockets AND bombers…. unless the bombers are shielded via more escorts than jet ftrs.
Otherwise, if the defense player has 1 jet fighter and 1 AAGun (say attacker does not have Long Range Air Craft tech, but he got Rockets tech), then the bomber would be more protected that if the defense wouldn’t have jet power (2 hits@1 needed to kill the bomber).
More protected with less defending jet power? I don’t think so.
Jets can intercept both rockets AND SBRs.Your example negated the bomber interception since you had escorts (LRA).
By allowing the attacker to choose the casualties, the attacker is rewarded for having rockets AND LRA.Thank you for the answers. I know that this is a very special case, but I encountered this point (of the beginning of the thread) in a friend game.
You are welcome. And it’s not a problem, I will support Enhanced when ever I can.
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