FMG COMBAT UNITS - Rules: AIR TRANSPORT

[FieldMarshalGames]

Hello,
      As the first set is about to be released, I am getting a lot of questions from customers in regards to the expansion pieces we are including.  I am often asked “Will you include rules for these”.

My initial idea was that the house rules of this forum would fill the gap, but many of my customers are not members.

I have decided that I will include a print out of “Suggested Rules” for the expansion pieces.  The sheet will also include an invitation to this community and direction to the HOUSE RULE forum.

I have opened this thread to discuss AIR TRANSPORT and expansion rules for their use.

Please feel free to chime in as the BEST options will be posted in this handout.

[Fishmoto37]

@FieldMarshalGames:

Hello,
      As the first set is about to be released, I am getting a lot of questions from customers in regards to the expansion pieces we are including.  I am often asked “Will you include rules for these”.

My initial idea was that the house rules of this forum would fill the gap, but many of my customers are not members.

I have decided that I will include a print out of “Suggested Rules” for the expansion pieces.  The sheet will also include an invitation to this community and direction to the HOUSE RULE forum.

I have opened this thread to discuss AIR TRANSPORT and expansion rules for their use.

Please feel free to chime in as the BEST options will be posted in this handout.

We have not used air transports yet because of the lack of plastic units to represent them.  But I have developed rules for them. Cost is 7 and movement 6 like bombers. No combat value. Can transport 1 paratrooper directly into combat and can transport 2 infantry on non-combat. Might consider transporting 1 artillary on non-combat.

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

I have used paratroopers with great and perceived balance with these stats:
Cost: 7
Attack: -
Defense: -
Move: 5

Special Abilities
Paratroopers
 Air transports may transport one infantry (or elite infantry) aboard either for combat or noncombat purposes.  This infantry (a.k.a. paratrooper) may be picked up or dropped off anywhere along the air transport’s flight path.  Paratroopers attack and defend in exactly the same manner and at the same values as standard units. When attacking with paratroopers, any AA gun hit on an air transport also destroy the paratrooper unit aboard.

Return Home After Dropping off Paratroopers
  Air transports do not have an attack value because their role is to deliver troops to the battlefield. Therefore they do not participate in attacking land (or sea) battles after defending AA guns fire.  After dropping paratroopers into the battlefield it is understood that they have disengaged from the battle and are returning home.  As a result, they can never be chosen as causalities in battle, although the infantry they carried into battle could.

Chosen Last as Causalities.
Like transports in a defending land battle air transports are chosen last as causalities. Meaning if a territory with air transports are captured by an enemy all air transports in that territory are immediately destroyed.

A Note on Technology:
the current AAG40 tech chart will need to be changed. Paratroopers may be replaced with giving air transports the ability to carry two infantry (or elite infantry). Just a thought.

A note to those advocating 2 infantry per air transport:
I have found this to be a bad idea since it encouraged players to fight battles with a few paratroopers some fighters and no supporting land units. Limiting to one infantry means that players will usually bring in additional supporting land units giving the unit a more historical feel.

Once again Thank you FMGs.

[Fishmoto37]

@Bob_A_Mickelson:

I have used paratroopers with great and perceived balance with these stats:
Cost: 7
Attack: -
Defense: -
Move: 5

Special Abilities
Paratroopers
 Air transports may transport one infantry (or elite infantry) aboard either for combat or noncombat purposes.  This infantry (a.k.a. paratrooper) may be picked up or dropped off anywhere along the air transport’s flight path.  Paratroopers attack and defend in exactly the same manner and at the same values as standard units. When attacking with paratroopers, any AA gun hit on an air transport also destroy the paratrooper unit aboard.

Return Home After Dropping off Paratroopers
  Air transports do not have an attack value because their role is to deliver troops to the battlefield. Therefore they do not participate in attacking land (or sea) battles after defending AA guns fire.  After dropping paratroopers into the battlefield it is understood that they have disengaged from the battle and are returning home.  As a result, they can never be chosen as causalities in battle, although the infantry they carried into battle could.

Chosen Last as Causalities.
Like transports in a defending land battle air transports are chosen last as causalities. Meaning if a territory with air transports are captured by an enemy all air transports in that territory are immediately destroyed.

A Note on Technology:
the current AAG40 tech chart will need to be changed. Paratroopers may be replaced with giving air transports the ability to carry two infantry (or elite infantry). Just a thought.

A note to those advocating 2 infantry per air transport:
I have found this to be a bad idea since it encouraged players to fight battles with a few paratroopers some fighters and no supporting land units. Limiting to one infantry means that players will usually bring in additional supporting land units giving the unit a more historical feel.

Once again Thank you FMGs.

Air transports should only move two infantry on non-comat. Carry only one directly into combat.

[crusaderiv]

I agree with Bob.
But for the cost…7 IPC is to much.
5 IPC that’s fine!

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

Costs need to be at least as much as a sea transport otherwise players will likely elect to purchase primarily air transports due to their greater range. This would not be good. Air transports should be viewed as supplementary units in most cases not the main force which is what happens when the price is lowered too much.

[Imperious Leader]

Air Transport:

attack 0
defend 0
Move 4 in combat, 6 in NCM
cost 10

These are just like sea transports, except they only bring one unit in combat or two in NCM and only infantry

If used in combat they are just like OOB paratroopers for AAG40

In NCM they can move farther and have twice the capacity.

They can never fly over enemy areas that contain fighters, including sea zones  ( think enemy carriers). The only way to avoid this is to escort them with fighters. If they still want to do this, then one round of combat will occur using SBR rules ( interceptors at 2, escorts at 1)

In combat transports can not be taken as loses and are always the last plane to get removed. Look at them just like sea transports in terms of how they interact in combat.

[Fishmoto37]

@Imperious:

Air Transport:

attack 0
defend 0
Move 4 in combat, 6 in NCM
cost 10

These are just like sea transports, except they only bring one unit in combat or two in NCM and only infantry

If used in combat they are just like OOB paratroopers for AAG40

In NCM they can move farther and have twice the capacity.

They can never fly over enemy areas that contain fighters, including sea zones  ( think enemy carriers). The only way to avoid this is to escort them with fighters. If they still want to do this, then one round of combat will occur using SBR rules ( interceptors at 2, escorts at 1)

In combat transports can not be taken as loses and are always the last plane to get removed. Look at them just like sea transports in terms of how they interact in combat.

I am in agreement with IL on most of this but do you think that the fighter intercept is complicating the issue and will slow the game down? The land and sea zones are after all huge areas and planes should be able to fly through without attracting attention. We do not have the always active AA guns anymore. The only AA fire or interception is when a specific target is attacked. It also seems that we have a wide variety of ideas for cost. A compromise is needed.

[Imperious Leader]

Well its more chrome admittedly, but to allow a non- defending unit the ability to fly over an enemy air base or enemy air units and not have some interception seems to leave a sour taste.

I guess we can just not allow this to occur and remove the single combat round options. This makes is simple. The OOB does not allow you to paratroop units more than 2 spaces from your last controlled and occupied land space, so lets keep that and for NCM make the mission 4 spaces range?

Remember, Italy will benefit from this rule because they no longer need a navy to shuck to Africa. The cost of this unit must be reasonable, but equitable based on its value to move units, or players will start buying huge fleets of air transports and just ignore the sea transports.

[Detuite]

In our house rules bombers act as air transports and can carry two Paratroopers to and beyond the front line. These brings up a couple problems for both attackers and defenders. For attackers you have to choose wether you would rather use your bombers on SBR, as attackers or air transports. And for the defender you have to  keep troops in strategic places so paratroopers cant land behind your lines. Air transports are targeted everytime they fly over a territory containing AA guns and can be intercepted by fighters if they fly over airfields containg fighters. Fighters are capable of escorting air transports. Follow SBR rules for interceptor and escort attacks, air transports do not get an attack.

[MrBlack103]

Lets keep things simple people.

On the first round of combat, hits by defending fighters can be allocated to an air transport plus all its cargo if the defender so wishes. Otherwise allocate hits as normal.

If you think this might overpower ftrs, just don’t attack said territory with said paratroops. The enemy’s air force can’t be everywhere, after all (without being vulnerable to other tactics).

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Bob_A_Mickelson:

I have used paratroopers with great and perceived balance with these stats:
Cost: 7
Attack: -
Defense: -
Move: 5

Special Abilities
Paratroopers
 Air transports may transport one infantry (or elite infantry) aboard either for combat or noncombat purposes.  This infantry (a.k.a. paratrooper) may be picked up or dropped off anywhere along the air transport’s flight path.  Paratroopers attack and defend in exactly the same manner and at the same values as standard units. When attacking with paratroopers, any AA gun hit on an air transport also destroy the paratrooper unit aboard.

Return Home After Dropping off Paratroopers
  Air transports do not have an attack value because their role is to deliver troops to the battlefield. Therefore they do not participate in attacking land (or sea) battles after defending AA guns fire.  After dropping paratroopers into the battlefield it is understood that they have disengaged from the battle and are returning home.  As a result, they can never be chosen as causalities in battle, although the infantry they carried into battle could.

Chosen Last as Causalities.
Like transports in a defending land battle air transports are chosen last as causalities. Meaning if a territory with air transports are captured by an enemy all air transports in that territory are immediately destroyed.

A Note on Technology:
the current AAG40 tech chart will need to be changed. Paratroopers may be replaced with giving air transports the ability to carry two infantry (or elite infantry). Just a thought.

A note to those advocating 2 infantry per air transport:
I have found this to be a bad idea since it encouraged players to fight battles with a few paratroopers some fighters and no supporting land units. Limiting to one infantry means that players will usually bring in additional supporting land units giving the unit a more historical feel.

Once again Thank you FMGs.

I really like this with a small modification.  Cost 10 IPC.  Reason being that they would be used rather than sea transports if they had the same cost.

Also I would add: Can transport 2 INF NCM or 1 ELITE INF CM

[Imperious Leader]

Air Transport:

attack 0
defend 0
Move 4 in combat, 6 in NCM
cost 10

These are just like sea transports, except they only bring one unit in combat or two in NCM and only infantry

so they move 5 spaces??? or 4/6 as in my idea?

[spartan solider]

What territories would start off with air transports in them? :?

[FieldMarshalGames]

@spartan:

What territories would start off with air transports in them? :?

None, you would have to purchase them.  This would give you more tactical options during the game.

[crusaderiv]

so they move 5 spaces??? or 4/6 as in my idea?

4 spaces not more.
Cost = 5. 10 IPC is too much!

[kcdzim]

@crusaderiv:

so they move 5 spaces??? or 4/6 as in my idea?

4 spaces not more.
Cost = 5. 10 IPC is too much!

I completely disagree.  There’s a reason transports cost 7 despite having no attack or defense.  An air transport, that can potentially drop a unit BEHIND enemy lines, and is rarely left vulnerable (because it continues to move during non combat, unlike a naval transport) NEEDS to reflect that value in its purchase cost.  Otherwise Germany can airdrop a sealion while never needing a surface navy.  ugh.

[Imperious Leader]

10 IPC for air transport that moves 4 or 6 spaces is fine.

AP costs 7 and moves 2 and can bring 2 infantry

AT costing 10 and moving 4 in combat or 6 in NCM is a spend of 3 more IPC for an average of 3 more movement spaces, which needs to cost more or if it was 7 IPC i would never ever buy AP again.

1 infantry can move as airborne and 2 in NCM and movement at 4 in combat or 6 in NCM. This gives players really two new options: Either for airborne or air transport and enough juice in both ideas to make people consider them equal value.

If you just made it 4 spaces and carry 1 infantry and cost 7, you may have something, but i think it will turn into a fleet of air glitches due to it being 7 IPC and having players buy like 7 of these and landing the same in Africa each turn once the Italian navy is sunk.

I do see the issue of having two different movement points under my system, so to make it consistent just make them fly at 6 spaces, but carry only one infantry no matter what and cost 10 IPC

[dadler12]

Why not have them cost 7 IPC but allow fighters and tactical bombers to intercept them as they do strategic bombers?  This would cause people to protect them with more expensive fighter units (similar to protecting transports with a surface navy).  Or how about tying the use of air transports to functional air bases?  Say, infantry can only be loaded onto an air transport from a functional air base?

[kcdzim]

@dadler12:

Why not have them cost 7 IPC but allow fighters and tactical bombers to intercept them as they do strategic bombers?  This would cause people to protect them with more expensive fighter units (similar to protecting transports with a surface navy).  Or how about tying the use of air transports to functional air bases?  Say, infantry can only be loaded onto an air transport from a functional air base?

A:  Tactical Bomber cannot intercept strategic bombers under current rules.  They can scramble, which is different.  I mention that just so it’s clear that you’re suggesting a rule change as well.

B:  Chances are if your territory is being attacked and you have fighters available, they’re likely to be far more useful to defend the territory (defend at 4) than they are to intercept (at 2).  So interception would probably NEVER be helpful, unless you’re talking even overflying a territory with planes (similar to the old AA rules), in which case it’ll never happen.

C:  I’d argue, if they’re going to be as cheap as a naval transport, then they can only end a turn in a territory with an airbase.  It wouldn’t matter if the airbase was functional (that would just give a bonus to movement).

Otherwise they absolutely should cost 10, because they’re FAR more flexible than a naval transport, even if it’s only one infantry (and especially if it’s 2 infantry NCM).  Aircraft movement flexibility and transport space should cost quite a bit.  Compared to a tank, it basically 3 ipcs more valuable for that movement OVER the ability to blitz (if you assume 1 ipc for the additional defense as a seperate line item).  If it moves more than 4 and can drop a unit in an empty enemy space (or 2 in NCM) they should absolutely cost 10.