I’ve played third reich. There is both an 80s version, and a 90s version of that game. They are quite different. However, it is alot simpler and smaller than WiF. I am currently playing a game called Scorched Earth, Urals Mod in the Europa System. This game has baseunits being divisions and regiments. It playes the entire war on the eastern front. Each space is a hexagon at about 25 km accross. you usualle have about 3000 pieces on the map at any given time, when only playing the eastern front. If you play once a week, you will actually use like 8 years to play the 4 years from 41 to the end of 45.
Opinions of Bad Guy plans for new game
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@simon33 Now that I get your point on 6Inf/3Art, Turn 1, I do like that idea.
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Curious as to what you are getting at with this thread. Yes, a well constructed German strategy should crush Russia without a massive effort by the allies to help out.
I would argue that Japan keeping peace plays into the allies hands and I think you’ll find that view conventional on this site. For a start, the starting ANZAC fighters can reach. UK_Pac can send through a few planes. With a J1 or J2 DOW, the ANZAC fighters can’t cross onto Asia. And UK_Pac will lose its capital very quickly without its planes. Also, UK_Pac has a bunch of income if they have peace and can afford to build some planes probably.
That the axis have a huge advantage on this board is why bids are so high or significant house rules are used, such as balanced mod.
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@simon33 The question is Meta on ancillary Strategy.
What you suggest to keep ANZAC from helping…?
Would you go for UK instead? If so, why?
Anything really. The Point is to hear Your Point.
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@DermMannInDerHochburg said in Opinions of Bad Guy plans for new game:
@simon33 Sure, but if they simply soak and do zero damage you don’t really mitigate anything.
Generally speaking, Russia will have about 100 to take out. Correct Germany buys, with good tempo, means that you will finish them off on the 4th turn with overkill.
Don’t see how Bombers change calculus
Not 4 Turn, 4th Cycle
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Re: Anzac, if they put all 3 planes on java, Japan should crush them if they are at war. If there is peace, they can reach India turn 2 and Moscow turn 4.
So Japan going to war early traps them on Australia
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Agree, But thats bad Tempo for the Planes. ANZAC can get Fighters to India without Java.
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Not easily. They need to go via Sumatra, Malaya, Shan State or build a CV. All of which can be easily smacked by Japan unless the US are helping a lot.
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Another point I would make is that I can’t imagine Germany having such a strong air force if the Brits had scrambled to an attack on SZ110/111 G1. One of the reasons that I’m generally a fan of the scramble, particularly if there isn’t a naval build by Germany.
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@simon33 Do you have a game you can post so I can see what you mean? The 17 US bombers by t6 accomplishes two purposes in my mind. It mimics history. Stalin demanded a second front and the Allies gave him a bombing campaign.
Secondly, it provides American strength in Europe not usually seen until much later and usually in a more peripheral fashion. It is shocking to hear that 17 bombers and ten plus allied fighters still can’t prop the Russians up. I knew the game was broken in the Axis powers’ favor, but this is another matter altogether.
I don’t like major changes like balanced mod. I would prefer simple fixes like the ones I’ve suggested on my youtube channel crockett36. The simplest however would be to not follow the political rules. They are specifically designed to favor the Axis. They allow the Axis to act in a non-1940ish way, yet keep the Allies handcuffed. I know a guy who creates games. He loves simplicity. This is a simple solution. We should have a triplea game for that.
If you don’t like that one. Take away the National Objectives. Again, they specifically are meant to bolster the Axis with little benefit to the Allies.
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I’ve never done 17 bombers by turn 6. So I don’t have a game to point you to. I also didn’t say those numbers.
However, it is an option to bolster Moscow with some us bombers. I think the op‘s figures for Germany’s strength are quite high. I’m curious as to what is happening g1 to allow this.
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@simon33 Sorry, let me clarify. I want to see a game that has those huge numbers on both sides. Seeing that, I’ll use the battle calculator, drop in 17 bombers or whatever can make it there by the turn in question and determine whether or no they would effect the outcome.
I’m not sure what you mean my “what is happening g1”. I think young grasshopper has posted a fairly robust g1. I think the navy is a mistake and would replace it with infantry or mechs.
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@DermMannInDerHochburg i think i should have addressed my comments to you. Sorry Simon
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@DermMannInDerHochburg can you post a game that shows such a large showdown turn 4?
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My most recent game ended with a quit turn four, because the Russia playersplot their units, such that half could not male it back to Russia on the 5th Russian turn.
The one before that was against a different player and did not scramble turn 1, and just back peddled with Russia until the turn 6 showdown.
I will take pictures of the next game. I think what makes this possible is what the other guy mentioned, Russia can’t get US help soon enough. Additionally UK has to make big sacrifices to add mmany fighters to Russia on the 5th UK turn.
Also, mech inf are the best deal in the game, and a major in Germany proper now is a huve game changer.
Make Axis and Allies great again!
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@DermMannInDerHochburg
look forward to seeing it. totally agree, mechs are awesome. VDHansen talks about how the Russians could move so fast because of the American trucks. Save London! Secure the Atlantic! Rescue Moscow and move on from there! -
Historicity of the game is questionable, but that the point too, “what if…?”
This is a game, with weakness that can be manipulated or exploited. Historicity aside.
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@DermMannInDerHochburg Yes, it’s playable history and what if, but I get jazzed when I can make it happen the way it did.
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The 8th and 12th airforce didnt land in Red Square and have their crews deploy as dismounted infantrymen, fighting with their pistols, so I’m not sure how the Moo Rescue is historical, it’s actually a brilliant bit of cheesebombing.
Its also a great way to let Japan win the game, since sending 200 IPCs across the game board to be used as cannon fodder will ensure a Japan income over 70. It sounds good on paper but the ##s cited are pretty out there, and if you really had 17 bombers acting as a group, you could lazer any fleet, factory or bastion on the board–that plan seems stronger than flying around the entire planet, to save a dying capital.
The reason “Russia always loses” is that it loses all its money, no matter how you defend Moscow. The big problem with patching/fixing the game is how do we make Russia hold out longer, and be harder to dismember, without making it so strong that it can’t be defeated when Germany (and the Axis) play some sub-optimal but fun strategy. Since there is only 1 critical path (G2/Crussia), the game devolves upon its least interesting playout, into “a question of how many turns to Moscow’s door”
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Can you define Moo Rescue, cheese bombing, crussia? Obviously I would be looking for a way to use the bombers as bombers, throwing fours. I’m looking for that last column of mechs or tanks out of Berlin. This strategy has the advantage of being able to give the Russians the confidence to loose some russian tanks or mechs China’s way. Certainly the 18 men out east can be used to suppress the Japanese advance. I do not see them growing to 70. I’d need to see the math on that. India may fall, but it’s a relatively, if not immediate, retake.
I hope to do a game and post it.
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Apologies good sir:
Moo Rescue = USA Bombers to Moscow as suggested by Cow
Cheesebombing = using game rules to do something unconventional, unrealistic, and unexpected, but legal
Crussia = Attacking Russia with all 3 Axis powers as early as possible—all efforts will be used to suffocate it and prevent any positional defense to buy time–ensuring that even if the fastest possible moscow attack is not achieved, optimal income destruction is.The “Siberian” men arrive something like R6-7–those are a way better source of protection for moscow than bombers. Keeping the men east but still attempting to deliver the bombers seem to be contradictory goals.
Just on background, I’m a big fan of 100% KJF. Any failure to interdict the Japanese in the early game will create an unstoppable monster–if Germany cant kill Russia, Japan simply will, and from behind. The USA could buy twice as many subs as bombers, (i usually buy bombers on after US6 because they can join the culminating battles)—if Japan is busy fueling his factories, and not building fleet, he will be overwhelmed by the Allies in the mid game.
Once both Germany and Japan are surrounding the capital, no intervention will help. This is around J8 if moscow hasn’t already fallen.
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