“Bids and Scramble”
sounds like a good name for a board game :lol:
IDK “Chutes and Ladders” just came to mind lol
I Can't Repair My Battleships!
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I am just surprised that stock rules have repair on ships for free, you have to repair factories, airfields, and ports. So why not ships?
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I know I sounded hypocritical by saying this is not a question than asking one, but my point of even posting it was to start a discussion. I also wonder how many of you actually followed this rule. This came to me when I was thinking about that classic A&A rule about you can only do Phases X, Y, and Z if your capital is taken. I thought it was weird and made no sense definitely that your ally can’t heal your capital ships like you guy brought up.
By the way, the rule book actually addresses the issue of UK repairs (to an extent as you will soon see), as the Global rules state that “An economy whose capital is held by the Axis can’t collect income, spend IPCs, or repair units (pg. 35 of both rule books)”. The rule book also says that the two economies makes their own separate repairs so I am assuming that only repair your ships with Naval Bases on the territories that would belong to that economy who retains their capital should they fall into the hands of the UK.
But what economy would the Allied capitals fall under as they can never be controlled by the UK, as the definition of the economies in the rulebook rely on UK owning territories. Therefore the rulebook (as far as I know) never say what economy the non-UK territories fall under…
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I know I sounded hypocritical by saying this is not a question than asking one, but my point of even posting it was to start a discussion. I also wonder how many of you actually followed this rule. This came to me when I was thinking about that classic A&A rule about you can only do Phases X, Y, and Z if your capital is taken. I thought it was weird and made no sense definitely that your ally can’t heal your capital ships like you guy brought up.
By the way, the rule book actually addresses the issue of UK repairs, as the Global rules state that “An economy whose capital is held by the Axis can’t collect income, spend IPCs, or repair units (pg. 35 of both rule books)”. Maybe the rule was more thought out than I originally had anticipated…
Right but now we’re questioning logic behind the rules. On the Allies side for sure, US Lend-Lease anything and everything and in the case of naval ships, they literally gave them out for free and demanded return of them regardless of condition after the war. So this puts more thought that allies should be able to repair ships.
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@Caesar Seriona: Sorry for the misquote you now have on your post as I modified my post.
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Even more so with US running Lend Lease and Canada running Cash and Carry. Lend Lease had stipulations that naval vessels were to be transferred to Allied nation under the condition they be returned to the US after the war regardless of condition. And another great example is that before US entered WWI, the US government basically for saw the US rail road corporations making demands for the war so to get around that, they basically eminent domain the rail lines. So yeah, I bet the civilian division were conscripted into military service without actually joining. Another example of this is our Maritime Fleets where during peace they operation normally but under war are instantly part of the US navy as an auxiliary fleet.
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I always interpreted the rule as if you simply had no cash and cannot spend it on anything. So to me BB repairs would still be possible, but I was wrong (never happened at our games anyways as far as I can remember)
But with the split UK economy the rules as they should be interpreted are even more strange to me. Anyways: good original question and good follow on question about the UK. Let’s see what Krieghund’s view is on this matter.
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Honestly, people have been asking for an actual global manual so we can work out some of the “interesting” rules that have come up.
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@Caesar:
Well I’m here to muddy the waters further; but with some answers.
Because the British essentially have two capitals, I would imagine this means that if London falls, no British repairs can be made on the Europe side of the board? and the same on the pacific side of the board should Calcutta fall?
So if say the British Battleship makes it to Sydney or San Francisco… whilst Calcutta is captured, No repairs!
What if there is a naval base in Western Canada or West India in a global game? LOL what then? I suppose it’s reliant on the capital that is collecting it as income?
Interesting that it has no effect on allied powers. I guess they are just able to “use” the facility so long as it isn’t damaged.
At that point, that could be an annoying “perk” to have, honestly though at the end of the day, just take your ships to a friendly port.
Just want to clarify , even if at a friendly port you still can’t repair.
The irony is, your allies who still have control of their capitals can repair at your ports even though you can’t repair at any port, until you control your capital
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While UK facilities belong to a specific economy (by virtue of being attached to a specific territory), UK units do not. The result of this is that UK capital ships may be repaired at any operative naval base belonging to a friendly power so long as either UK capital is free. This is similar to the rule that either UK economy may pay for Research and Development.
In the example of London having fallen while Calcutta is free, UK capital ships may be repaired at any operative Allied naval base except those that are part of the UK Europe economy. The assumption is that the cost (too small to be represented by a full IPC) is borne by the UK Pacific economy.
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In other words , don’t worry about it because this will almost never happen.
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In the example of London having fallen while Calcutta is free, UK capital ships may be repaired at any operative Allied naval base except those that are part of the UK Europe economy. The assumption is that the cost (too small to be represented by a full IPC) is borne by the UK Pacific economy.
But under the assumption that the UK Pacific economy bears the cost, why can’t a UK capital ship be repaired at a naval base in, say, unoccupied South Africa? And if that’s so, can the South African naval base still repair non-UK capital ships?
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@Herr:
In the example of London having fallen while Calcutta is free, UK capital ships may be repaired at any operative Allied naval base except those that are part of the UK Europe economy. The assumption is that the cost (too small to be represented by a full IPC) is borne by the UK Pacific economy.
But under the assumption that the UK Pacific economy bears the cost, why can’t a UK capital ship be repaired at a naval base in, say, unoccupied South Africa?
For the same reason that UK Pacific can’t mobilize units there. The territory is part of the Europe economy.
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@Herr:
… And if that’s so, can the South African naval base still repair non-UK capital ships?
As long as the naval base is operational it can, provided the owner of the damaged ship has not lost his capital (which would eliminate the Purchase/Repair-Phase).
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Great question! I can’t think of a time where we’ve played this way. Good to know for the future.
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I have been emailed and asked for a sort of summary about the “UK-economy-repair”-subject.
For those interested I place the answer here, too:
So just to sum it up from the rules point of view:
It has been pointed out:
@rulebook:Each of United Kingdom Europe and Pacific makes its own separate purchases and repairs.
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An economy whose capital is held by the Axis can’t collect income, spend IPCs, or repair units."So assuming Calcutta is in Axis’ hand and there is a damaged UK-battleship in the Pacific,
these are the questions and answers to solve the scenario:Q: Who is the player who controls the damaged battleship?
A: It is the player controlling UK with its two economies.Q: Does the UK-Pacific economy have a Purchase+Repair Phase?
A: No, because Calcutta is in enemy’s handQ: Does the UK-Europe economy have a Purchase+Repair Phase?
A: Yes, because London is still BritishQ: So when and where can the damaged battleship be repaired?
A: During the Purchase+Repair Phase of the UK-Europe economy at every friendly operative naval base except British naval bases belonging to the UK-Pacific economy.Also:
The loss of a capital does not affect the operativeness of any Naval Base. But it eliminates the Repair-Phase of that power.
So any (Non-UK) nation can use any friendly operative Naval Base, as long as the owner of the damaged ship has not lost his capital. -
Thank you. At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases. So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?
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Lets just put a bottom line on this discussion.
IF UK Europe falls and London is on fire AND UK Europe still have capital sips alive on the Europe map. What in the heck is the UK player doing? saving the BB and CV for a rainy day?
It is an interesting rules discussion I quess but in the big picture of the game, it is a non factor.
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@Herr:
Thank you. At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases. So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?
Well this hits at the heart of A&A1940.
1940 Europe and Pacific where made as stand alone games.
Then they decided to “bridge” the two games / rule sets into a global game and have global rules at the end of each 2ed rule set. For the die hard players found on the forum it would be nice if “they” could come out with the official 1940 Global rules pack and unify everything into one book.
** the reason this discussion is even happening is that the UK is the one unique major power in the game where they have 2 capitals and thus a split empire. For every other Major power if your capital is lost, naval repair is a mute point.
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@Herr:
At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases.
That’s correct.
@Herr:
So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?
Yes, it could be repaired at any non-UK base, anywhere in the world. It’s only the UK bases that are restricted.
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@Herr:
At first, I was under the impression that the rule would only pertain to British naval bases.
That’s correct.
@Herr:
So, just to make sure, I suppose that the damaged British battleship could not be repaired at Hawaii or New Zealand (assuming those territories are in Allied hands). And what about Alaska and the Aleutians, in the somewhat unlikely case of a US naval base there?
Yes, it could be repaired at any non-UK base, anywhere in the world. It’s only the UK bases that are restricted.
So UK is privileged over any other nation?
While every other nation can’t repair anywhere when losing its capital, UK - losing one of its capitals - can repair everywhere around the world (regardless of Europe or Pacific economy/side) except at those restricted (by economy that lost its capital) few British Naval Bases?
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