How to use America effectively in KGF?

[trihero]

Wes, you have been away too long.  Darth (and others) have already perfected the 4X4 LONG before USA5.

How does it work?

I’ll have a 3x3 up by Turn 3.

Round 1: Buy 3 Transports
Round 2: Buy units and move fleets around.
Round 3: 3 Transports East of England, 3 Transports West of England.

Maybe I wasn’t being specific enough. What I’m talking about is actually having it in full gear; i.e. there are 6-8 units in England ready to go and 6-8 units in W. Canada. Your shuck is ready on Round 4. I too can have the transports ready earlier than round 5 but it’s a question of having 4 inf 4 tank in both E. Canada and England before then and still having built a carrier and landed enough units in Africa to dislodge the Germans.

But let’s assume US has to buy a carrier?

[Romulus]

Which the tactic I use the progression is:

US1: 2 TRN to Algeria + 2 TRN Bought
US2: 2 TRN to Algeria - 2 TRN back to sz10 + 1 TRN Bought
US3: 3 TRN to Algeria - 2 TRN back sz10 + 1 TRN Bought (Shuck 3x3 fully working)

Buying;
US1, 42 ICC:  1 AC, 2 TRN, 2 tanks (move two units from CUS to fill the two TRNs)
US2, assuming 40 IPC:  1 TRN, 4 inf, 2 Tanks, 1 fig
US3, assuming 38 IPC:  1 TRN, 5 inf, 1 tank, 1 fig
US4, assuming 38 IPC:  3 inf, 3 tank (24), 14 IPC for saving and/or spending: in Atlantic and/or Pacific, or to aim for another set of 3 TRN in order to switch landing to Norway or toe threaten WE or SE without disrupting 3x3 shuck move.

I have discovered the hot water and I am calling it “not cold water” (in the sense that seldom I have optimized my move someone else already done this)
:-D
Moreover, it is viable shuck move? Or it sucks completely?
:?

[Lucifer]

If all your stuff goes to Algeria, you surely have secured Afr for UK, Romulus.
The logistics will come naturally, more games, and this will be routine.

By rnd 5 US should have 8 trans, at least.
This is a good strat, but this may not be the most effective use of US resources.
It depends on the map. If G does not try to take Afr, then UK moves to Italy and kills the German fleet.
Not often G player let you do this, but if…
And Afr may be secured by rnd 2, and if allies make a stand in Anglo, or Persia, then it’s better for
US to land in Norway or Kalia.
From EC to UK/Nor both UK and US threaten Berlin.
I think US should take SE asap, without losing messing up logistics to Algeria.
That could be rnd 4-5, if G is strong…
UK should trade WE, and move stuff from Norway, or to/from Kalia.
Most conservtive players do this as UK.
3x3 with pure inf+ftrs may secure whatever TT’s Russia and UK can occupy.

[trihero]

I came up with a weird way to start - build 5 tran with the US. This way you usually don’t need a carrier when you link off of Algeria O_o

[Jennifer]

The 4 Tran option to North Africa is a great way to save money.  Problem is, it takes 6 turns to get to Europe. (Algera, Libya, Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Persia, Caucasus, now you can attack Europe!)

A faster route is 4 transports from E. Canada to England and 4 more transports from England to Karelia/Archangelsk (depending on if you are winning or losing.)

[Guest]

If Germany is heavilly invested in Africa, or if Japan is moving in to Africa, the “extra turns” to Europe are not an issue, sicne the Americans are still engaging and destroying Axis units along the way…

[Jennifer]

And those units going to Africa are NOT going to Russia!

[Jennifer]

And, for the record, I’d gladly trade 4 American infantry to save 1 Russian infantry.  Especially if those 4 Americans are in Africa and that Russian ins in Euro/Asia

[frood]

As the Axis I’m usually happy to see big hordes of Allied units parading around in Africa. They are denying Germany income of 5-6 IPCs for a few rounds, but in the meantime it’s keeping 50 IPCs of units far away from me. Even better if I was able to sneak a few units to South Africa and they spend a few more turns going down and back to kill those.

I’m intrigued by the 5 TRN buy. Hmm…

My usual approach is 3 TRN the first turn with the US, then 1 or 2 TRN per turn after that until I have 8 or more. I often over-buy TRNs - whatever will let me move the max number of units each turn, because the only units that count are those at the front.

[Jennifer]

No such thing as an America with “too many transports.”  That’s like saying you’re having “Too much fun!”

“Extra” transports can always be used as fodder in naval engagements.  Also, “extra” transports might be useful if you want to land 1 unit invasions all over North Africa and South Europe. wink

[trihero]

With a 5 tran USA buy, you can have a total of 12 tran, 2 dest, 1 bb, 1 sub off of Algeria at the end of US2 O_o! (well I overbuild with UK so I have 5 transports, then add US’s 7 transports lmao) That’s an average of roughly 4 hits. Definitely worse than using 1-2 carriers, but if you can get by with 5 tran, then you haven’t spend a dollar on defense that you don’t need in the future. Usually if you use SZ1/2 for the shucking from E . Canada to London then you don’t need more defense than the US BB (to guard against a bomber in W. Europe), and the main shuck is combined with the UK’s bb/tran so you don’t need a carrier there either.

[frood]

Yeah, transports are a “force multiplier” I think - money spent on transports is not really wasted from land units, because it greatly increases the options you have with your land units, as if you actually had more land units.

For example, UK only “needs” 4 transports to unload the 8 units it can build every turn. However, if UK has 6-7 TRN, and units waiting in Norway in addition to the ones in UK, it makes Germany have to add a lot more defence to WE, Ger and EE. That’s a lot of bang for the buck on 16-24 IPCs of naval units.

However, I’m not a fan of using TRNs as fodder in naval battles. Navies exist to protect TRNs, not vice versa. Rather, use subs if you need some cheap fodder. They have the advantage of being able to hit back. I will take hits on TRNs first, but I won’t build TRNs just to be fodder.

And I rarely build a US AC, and try to avoid building a UK one too. Land units and transports all the way!

[trihero]

Agreed Mr. Frood. When I overbuild transports, it’s never primarily because I intend to throw them away. I might be forced to if the enemy is taking a risk and succeeds. I usually try to overbuilds transports to the point where the Luftwaffe just go “eff it, too many of the buggers” or “damn, even if I did land a few hits, it wouldn’t interrupt their shuck at all because they could just lose the extra tran and sub and absorb a hit on the BB…wahhh!!” and don’t attempt to attack, which means some IPCs saved on building a carrier/using fighters to guard, and also the force multiplier thing is awesome, as well.

As far as taking hits on trans, it really has to do with how hard the enemy dice hit, and also if the opponent was being technical about battles or not. If the dice hit hard, you’re just going to have to take it on tran, because otherwise your entire navy will be wiped out the next round at little cost. But if the dice hit average or light, you can lose the extra tran and maybe one of your dest so that your shuck isn’t interrupted at all, and rely on average rolling to kill enough attackers to discourage future rounds of attack.

Technically defenders have to choose casualties before rolling defense, but some people might be lazy and roll both at once so you have the advantage of knowing how the battle came out, which makes it a little easier to assign casualties.

[Jennifer]

Tri:

Instead of using the American BB as a bodyguard for your transports in SZ 8, why not put a destroyer in there (or two destroyers) and use the battleship a little closer to the front lines where it’s 16 inch guns can play tag with the enemy?

[trihero]

Yea good point, just sometimes it’s annoying to maneuver the BB because it’s usually lagging behind your “forward” fleet.

[Jennifer]

Okay.  Then put your transports in SZ 2 and put your battleship and destroyers in SZ 4. :P

[Weekend Gamer]

@trihero:

Yea good point, just sometimes it’s annoying to maneuver the BB because it’s usually lagging behind your “forward” fleet.

If your BB is lagging behind the rest of your fleet, then you are not deploying your BB correctly, IMO.  A BB without transports is quite possibly the most useless piece on the board.

[frood]

@Gamer:

@trihero:

Yea good point, just sometimes it’s annoying to maneuver the BB because it’s usually lagging behind your “forward” fleet.

If your BB is lagging behind the rest of your fleet, then you are not deploying your BB correctly, IMO.  A BB without transports is quite possibly the most useless piece on the board.

I think it’s just in the first few turns, because the BB is coming from the Pacific.

[Jennifer]

That’s how I read it, yea.

SZ 55 to SZ 20
SZ 20 to SZ 10
SZ 10 to SZ 12

Funny thing is, by the time the US Battleship makes it on station, the entire British fleet can be unified in home waters. :P

[trihero]

Funny thing is, by the time the US Battleship makes it on station, the entire British fleet can be unified in home waters.

I guess that means that it takes too long to rely on it for protection for your forward fleet =P